Comments on: The Philosophy Of History Of Anti-Zionism http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/ Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East Thu, 24 May 2012 05:17:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC1.1 By: Bialik http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-20495 Bialik Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:57:40 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-20495 What was the alternative in 1948, when the world was full of displaced people and the millions who died were the ones who couldn't get the small number of visas to whichever country decided they might be useful? And if Iran attempts to murder the last of the Jews there, does Israel say 'fill in this form and if you have a useful profession, then, subject to quotas, you may come in'? What would be the point of Israel if it couldn't give the Jewish nation a place of safety? A law of return - doesn't preclude those from other nations becoming citizens. And anyone who has worked in immigration knows that the decision ultimately rests in the UK with the Home Secretary. What was the alternative in 1948, when the world was full of displaced people and the millions who died were the ones who couldn’t get the small number of visas to whichever country decided they might be useful? And if Iran attempts to murder the last of the Jews there, does Israel say ‘fill in this form and if you have a useful profession, then, subject to quotas, you may come in’? What would be the point of Israel if it couldn’t give the Jewish nation a place of safety? A law of return - doesn’t preclude those from other nations becoming citizens. And anyone who has worked in immigration knows that the decision ultimately rests in the UK with the Home Secretary.

]]> By: Bulgarian Settlers at Z-Word Blog http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19495 Bulgarian Settlers at Z-Word Blog Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:55:37 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19495 [...] brief coda to this post. If the opinion polls are anything to go by then Dilma Rousseff will today be elected President of [...] […] brief coda to this post. If the opinion polls are anything to go by then Dilma Rousseff will today be elected President of […]

]]> By: thesystemworks http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19303 thesystemworks Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:47:20 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19303 John Mack: As I said, those are not my views of Irish independence. I support an independent Ireland, and an armed militia for Catholics in the North that protected them from Loyalist death squads. But there is no question Protestants were displaced in the creation of the Irish Free State (later the Republic). After the War of Independence, IRA gunmen went on a killing spree in Munster directed at local Protestants. After a string of sectarian murders, which were directed not at wealthy land-owning Protestants or prominent Unionists - but everyday small farmers, shop-ownerrs and house-painters- trains out of Cork were filled to capacity for weeks with Protestants who went to escape. In many counties, particularly near the border of Norther Ireland, the eldest Protestant sons of landowners were often targeted for assasination so no one could inherit the farm and such. And by the way, the National Schools were founded not on actual legislation but on a letter from Lord Stanley to the Duke of Leinster. Technically, it wasn’t legislation, but it was definitely the rule that religion had to be taught outside of the normal school day. The Catholic Church squeezed itself in and the Irish state accelarated this process and now the RCC control 98% of Irish Primary schools in some way. Check out this link: http://bocktherobber.com/2010/08/catholic-bishops-and-irish-primary-schools It seems funny to think now that Brendan Behan, whenever he met a Jew in a Dublin bar, would hop on a table and sing 'Hatikvah' in perfect Hebrew... he was a committed Republican and Zionist. Menachem Begin was nicknamed 'Michael' after one of his great influences, Michael Collins. John Mack: As I said, those are not my views of Irish independence. I support an independent Ireland, and an armed militia for Catholics in the North that protected them from Loyalist death squads.

But there is no question Protestants were displaced in the creation of the Irish Free State (later the Republic). After the War of Independence, IRA gunmen went on a killing spree in Munster directed at local Protestants. After a string of sectarian murders, which were directed not at wealthy land-owning Protestants or prominent Unionists - but everyday small farmers, shop-ownerrs and house-painters- trains out of Cork were filled to capacity for weeks with Protestants who went to escape. In many counties, particularly near the border of Norther Ireland, the eldest Protestant sons of landowners were often targeted for assasination so no one could inherit the farm and such.

And by the way, the National Schools were founded not on actual legislation but on a letter from Lord Stanley to the Duke of Leinster. Technically, it wasn’t legislation, but it was definitely the rule that religion had to be taught outside of the normal school day. The Catholic Church squeezed itself in and the Irish state accelarated this process and now the RCC control 98% of Irish Primary schools in some way. Check out this link:

http://bocktherobber.com/2010/08/catholic-bishops-and-irish-primary-schools

It seems funny to think now that Brendan Behan, whenever he met a Jew in a Dublin bar, would hop on a table and sing ‘Hatikvah’ in perfect Hebrew… he was a committed Republican and Zionist. Menachem Begin was nicknamed ‘Michael’ after one of his great influences, Michael Collins.

]]> By: Joe in Australia http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19276 Joe in Australia Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:41:18 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19276 Whatabouttery, someone claiming Irish citizenship by descent does so because their grandparent was born in the island of Ireland - very possibly before Ireland became independent. That grandparent may be deceased; the grandchild may never have met the grandparent; in fact the grandparent may have emigrated from Ireland as an infant and never returned. None the less, the ties of blood and soil are ineradicable. Is this an accurate statement of your position? Whatabouttery, someone claiming Irish citizenship by descent does so because their grandparent was born in the island of Ireland - very possibly before Ireland became independent. That grandparent may be deceased; the grandchild may never have met the grandparent; in fact the grandparent may have emigrated from Ireland as an infant and never returned. None the less, the ties of blood and soil are ineradicable. Is this an accurate statement of your position?

]]> By: Rob in Madison http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19256 Rob in Madison Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:48:43 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19256 Whattaboutery, you have missed the entire sense of the article. Read it again. Whattaboutery, you have missed the entire sense of the article. Read it again.

]]> By: whatabouttery http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19254 whatabouttery Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:31:18 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19254 this whole article is relevant, and here's a snippet. "The sort of Jewish state that Israel became is more discriminatory and marginalizing of its minority than most contemporary ethnic states. For example, whereas other ethnic-states accord preference in immigration to members of its majority ethnic group, Israel bestows automatic and immediate citizenship to anyone who is considered Jewish religiously or racially, provided that he or she was not an adherent of another religion. Again, unlike many other ethnic states, which accord preference in citizenship to native minorities, Israel’s Arab minority is not considered favored in immigration; on the contrary, there are emergency orders forbidding spouses of Israeli citizens to become naturalized, if the citizens are Palestinian Arab. Again, unlike other ethnic states that have procedures for nationalizing those who are not members of the majority ethnic group, Israel has no naturalization procedure besides the fiat of the minister of Interior. A minister of Interior from a rightwing or religious party ensures that there will be no naturalized citizens." http://972mag.com/israels-arab-problem-by-jerry-haber/ this whole article is relevant, and here’s a snippet.

“The sort of Jewish state that Israel became is more discriminatory and marginalizing of its minority than most contemporary ethnic states. For example, whereas other ethnic-states accord preference in immigration to members of its majority ethnic group, Israel bestows automatic and immediate citizenship to anyone who is considered Jewish religiously or racially, provided that he or she was not an adherent of another religion. Again, unlike many other ethnic states, which accord preference in citizenship to native minorities, Israel’s Arab minority is not considered favored in immigration; on the contrary, there are emergency orders forbidding spouses of Israeli citizens to become naturalized, if the citizens are Palestinian Arab. Again, unlike other ethnic states that have procedures for nationalizing those who are not members of the majority ethnic group, Israel has no naturalization procedure besides the fiat of the minister of Interior. A minister of Interior from a rightwing or religious party ensures that there will be no naturalized citizens.”

http://972mag.com/israels-arab-problem-by-jerry-haber/

]]> By: whatabouttery http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19237 whatabouttery Thu, 28 Oct 2010 17:14:32 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19237 not about accountability eamonn - just your inability to defend your own illogic. like the following: "The Irish law of return is plainly racist as you can only benefit from it through a blood relationship." A blood relationship...with an Irish *citizen*. Whereas the Law of Return is based on... come on now, you do the rest not about accountability eamonn - just your inability to defend your own illogic.

like the following:

“The Irish law of return is plainly racist as you can only benefit from it through a blood relationship.”

A blood relationship…with an Irish *citizen*. Whereas the Law of Return is based on… come on now, you do the rest

]]> By: Justquoting http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19236 Justquoting Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:50:57 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19236 In partial answer to lapsedmethodist, the immigration of an Irish-American would take up a spot for a person in the immediate area (Irish, English, Scottish) trying to get a job and accept citizenship in Ireland... Or perhaps it would displace the potential immigration of a person from a non-European country. In partial answer to lapsedmethodist, the immigration of an Irish-American would take up a spot for a person in the immediate area (Irish, English, Scottish) trying to get a job and accept citizenship in Ireland… Or perhaps it would displace the potential immigration of a person from a non-European country.

]]> By: Eamonn McDonagh http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19232 Eamonn McDonagh Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:33:37 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19232 John Mack: The Irish law of return is plainly racist as you can only benefit from it through a blood relationship. Being interested in sean nós and Seamus Heaney won't cut it. How hard is that to understand? Israel's law of return also accepts black people, yellow people, brown people etc. They just have to have one Jewish parent or grandparent. They don't even have to be Jews themselves. The current head of the Israeli Navy is partly of Chinese descent. btw: Israel has gone to great trouble and risk to bring thousands of black Jews from Ethiopia http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ejtoc.html and a very large percentage of Israeli Jews were either born in Arab countries or are children of people who were. I can imagine what they'd be called behind their backs in some quarters in Ireland John Mack: The Irish law of return is plainly racist as you can only benefit from it through a blood relationship. Being interested in sean nós and Seamus Heaney won’t cut it. How hard is that to understand?

Israel’s law of return also accepts black people, yellow people, brown people etc. They just have to have one Jewish parent or grandparent. They don’t even have to be Jews themselves.

The current head of the Israeli Navy is partly of Chinese descent.

btw: Israel has gone to great trouble and risk to bring thousands of black Jews from Ethiopia

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ejtoc.html

and a very large percentage of Israeli Jews were either born in Arab countries or are children of people who were.

I can imagine what they’d be called behind their backs in some quarters in Ireland

]]> By: Eamonn McDonagh http://blog.z-word.com/2010/10/the-philosophy-of-history-of-anti-zionism/#comment-19229 Eamonn McDonagh Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:21:25 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1783#comment-19229 someone who won't even use their real name demands accountability from me... someone who won’t even use their real name demands accountability from me…

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