As to Norm’s argument what strikes me is, how y’all seem to think always in context of “elite” debates. I have run my own experiments i.e. talking to “simple” people not in the context of Israel but for example saying “can you imagine, if out of the blue a rocket would land on that lawn” or “who would saw a ship’s reling to pieces”. I seemed to get through, there is a deep disdain for vandalism in us “normals” and we who have made our living as subordinates have all experiences of having been slandered. Both experiences when touched on, may “open” somebody to a conversation. All this head on discourse about war and land and who is right or wrong pundits do and probably must keep doing seems to not reach those of us who are not highly gifted language-wise and are thus able to listen beyond “long” words.