Comments on: Tony Judt: Anti-Zionist as Disillusioned Convert http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/ Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:35:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC1.1 By: On The Death of Tony Judt at Z-Word Blog http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-14351 On The Death of Tony Judt at Z-Word Blog Sat, 07 Aug 2010 14:28:21 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-14351 [...] Judt.  I daresay they’d know. As good a moment as any to recall that he regarded Jews as morally unfit for self-government and warned that the Jews as a whole might have to suffer as a result of the [...] […] Judt.  I daresay they’d know. As good a moment as any to recall that he regarded Jews as morally unfit for self-government and warned that the Jews as a whole might have to suffer as a result of the […]

]]> By: anna http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9775 anna Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:03:05 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9775 Well, Judt has now time to think. I have a suggestion for the direction of his thinking. Disillusioned or not, one should never allow to be used by the enemies of his own, vulnerable, tragic people. Well, Judt has now time to think. I have a suggestion for the direction of his thinking. Disillusioned or not, one should never allow to be used by the enemies of his own, vulnerable, tragic people.

]]> By: jacob arnon http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9508 jacob arnon Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:53:20 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9508 I don't Eamonn, I read it at my local library which has a subscription. I stopped subscribing to that rag years ago. It's worth reading, though, and it will confirm your own view about Judt's religious like conversion away from his early view of Zionism. I don’t Eamonn, I read it at my local library which has a subscription. I stopped subscribing to that rag years ago.

It’s worth reading, though, and it will confirm your own view about Judt’s religious like conversion away from his early view of Zionism.

]]> By: Eamonn McDonagh http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9498 Eamonn McDonagh Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:19:29 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9498 Jacob, It's behind a sub wall. If you have it could you send it to me? E Jacob,
It’s behind a sub wall. If you have it could you send it to me?

E

]]> By: jacob arnon http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9494 jacob arnon Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:10:29 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9494 The carping short memoir by Tony Judt I mentioned above is now on line: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=23601 Three Memoirs by Tony Judt New York Review of Books Volume 57, Number 2 · February 11, 2010 The carping short memoir by Tony Judt I mentioned above is now on line:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=23601

Three Memoirs by Tony Judt

New York Review of Books

Volume 57, Number 2 · February 11, 2010

]]> By: jacob arnon http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9456 jacob arnon Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:24:43 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9456 I just read Tony Judt’s latest series of short impressions about his life in the New York Review of Books (February issue not on line yet) and it seems to me that had the unfortunate Mr. Judt not been dying of a horrible disease, (and I do wish him well) they would not have been published. In these apercus he says that studying German was one of the best things that ever happen to him in his life and being involved in the Zionist movement was one of the worst. He called Israel a prison and the Kibbutz a cell in that prison. (He has also described, elsewhere, that is own condition makes him feel as if he were imprisoned in his own body.) Now, I lived on an Israeli Kibbutz and I never felt as if I was in a “prison there.” More importantly the many millions of Jews who live in Israel don’t consider it a prison either. His latest writings show the mental deterioration of a once lucid thinker. For example, in the Review article he states that when he left the Kibbutz their leaders “considered him dead.” It’s as if he were comparing his leaving the Kibbutz to an excommunication from a religion. He offers no evidence and I have no idea what he is talking about. Judt’s hatred of Israel is based on something personal. He seems to blame Zionism both consciously and unconsciously for life’s ills. Eamonn is therefore right to see a religious like disillusion in his views on Zionism: “Tony Judt: Anti-Zionist as Disillusioned Convert” One would have hoped that his friends and editors would have asked him to expend, clarify and most importantly document his charges. Unfortunately he has attracted a cult following who revere him for his anti-Zionism and they would be last ones to ask for evidence that Israel is ‘a prison and that its citizens prisoners.’ I just read Tony Judt’s latest series of short impressions about his life in the New York Review of Books (February issue not on line yet) and it seems to me that had the unfortunate Mr. Judt not been dying of a horrible disease, (and I do wish him well) they would not have been published.

In these apercus he says that studying German was one of the best things that ever happen to him in his life and being involved in the Zionist movement was one of the worst. He called Israel a prison and the Kibbutz a cell in that prison. (He has also described, elsewhere, that is own condition makes him feel as if he were imprisoned in his own body.)

Now, I lived on an Israeli Kibbutz and I never felt as if I was in a “prison there.” More importantly the many millions of Jews who live in Israel don’t consider it a prison either.

His latest writings show the mental deterioration of a once lucid thinker. For example, in the Review article he states that when he left the Kibbutz their leaders “considered him dead.” It’s as if he were comparing his leaving the Kibbutz to an excommunication from a religion. He offers no evidence and I have no idea what he is talking about. Judt’s hatred of Israel is based on something personal. He seems to blame Zionism both consciously and unconsciously for life’s ills. Eamonn is therefore right to see a religious like disillusion in his views on Zionism: “Tony Judt: Anti-Zionist as Disillusioned Convert”

One would have hoped that his friends and editors would have asked him to expend, clarify and most importantly document his charges. Unfortunately he has attracted a cult following who revere him for his anti-Zionism and they would be last ones to ask for evidence that Israel is ‘a prison and that its citizens prisoners.’

]]> By: theedgeofwhere http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9433 theedgeofwhere Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:52:53 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9433 While I also reject Judt's position, I understand it differently to you. I don't think he rejected zionism on account of being confronted with a reality he didn't like about Israel that contrasted with his previous vision of the country. Rather, it was that he came to believe that the unpleasent reality he saw was the result of factors intrinsic to zionism. His problem was not a feeling that Israel was normal when he thought it was perfect. Rather it was that he came to feel that what he saw as its problematic abnormalities were the product of its zionism. Again, I'm not in complete agreement with him, but I think this is his position and it should be understood (and therefore critiqued) as being such. While I also reject Judt’s position, I understand it differently to you. I don’t think he rejected zionism on account of being confronted with a reality he didn’t like about Israel that contrasted with his previous vision of the country. Rather, it was that he came to believe that the unpleasent reality he saw was the result of factors intrinsic to zionism.

His problem was not a feeling that Israel was normal when he thought it was perfect. Rather it was that he came to feel that what he saw as its problematic abnormalities were the product of its zionism.

Again, I’m not in complete agreement with him, but I think this is his position and it should be understood (and therefore critiqued) as being such.

]]> By: Jessica http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9353 Jessica Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:33:07 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9353 Reminds me of the story of Egyptian Marxist Jew Joel Beinin. Same disillusionment, same self-hatred. Thank you for pointing out there are many ways to deal with confusion, not just one called hatred. Reminds me of the story of Egyptian Marxist Jew Joel Beinin. Same disillusionment, same self-hatred. Thank you for pointing out there are many ways to deal with confusion, not just one called hatred.

]]> By: Big Friday Roundup « The New Centrist http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9347 Big Friday Roundup « The New Centrist Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:49:07 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9347 [...] on Tony Judt. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Friday RoundupThe Big Orange Roundtable Roundup [...] […] on Tony Judt. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Friday RoundupThe Big Orange Roundtable Roundup […]

]]> By: Elaine Walsh http://blog.z-word.com/2010/01/tony-judtanti-zionist-as-disillusioned-convert/#comment-9342 Elaine Walsh Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:04:55 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1500#comment-9342 I understand the point about people like Judt feeling let down as soon as they find anything that contradicts their unrealistically idealized view of Zionism, but let's not go overboard with this "country like any other" thing: by any standards Israel's achievements were, and continue to be, remarkable, possibly unprecedented, and I am really puzzled that presumably intelligent people can be so influenced by a few bad apples/ experiences and fail to see the larger picture. I understand the point about people like Judt feeling let down as soon as they find anything that contradicts their unrealistically idealized view of Zionism, but let’s not go overboard with this “country like any other” thing: by any standards Israel’s achievements were, and continue to be, remarkable, possibly unprecedented, and I am really puzzled that presumably intelligent people can be so influenced by a few bad apples/ experiences and fail to see the larger picture.

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