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	<title>Comments on: A Correspondence with Richard Goldstone</title>
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	<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/</link>
	<description>Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jerry Haber</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7958</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Haber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7958</guid>
		<description>Halbertal's article misreads and misrepresents the report. But at least Halbertal has called for an independent investigation, which is what the Israeli government refuses to do. 

http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/11/when-philosopher-meets-judge-moshe.html

By the way, how many non-partisan (i.e., neither pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian) experts on international human rights law have criticized the report?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Halbertal&#8217;s article misreads and misrepresents the report. But at least Halbertal has called for an independent investigation, which is what the Israeli government refuses to do. </p>
<p><a href="http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/11/when-philosopher-meets-judge-moshe.html" rel="nofollow">http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/11/when-philosopher-meets-judge-moshe.html</a></p>
<p>By the way, how many non-partisan (i.e., neither pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian) experts on international human rights law have criticized the report?</p>
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		<title>By: Noga</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7810</link>
		<dc:creator>Noga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7810</guid>
		<description>On The New Republic, Moshe Halbertal kicks off his thoughtful article by pointing to what seem ingrained flaws in the assumptions of the report: 


"In addressing this vexing issue, the Goldstone Report uses a rather strange formulation: “While reports reviewed by the Mission credibly indicate that members of the Palestinian armed groups were not always dressed in a way that distinguished them from the civilians, the Mission found no evidence that Palestinian combatants mingled with the civilian population with the intention of shielding themselves from the attack.” The reader of such a sentence might well wonder what its author means. Did Hamas militants not wear their uniforms because they were inconveniently at the laundry? What other reasons for wearing civilian clothes could they have had, if not for deliberately sheltering themselves among the civilians?

As for the new “front” in asymmetrical warfare, we read in another passage, which is typical of the report’s overall biased tone, that, “On the basis of the information it gathered, the Mission finds that there are indications that Palestinian armed groups launched rockets from urban areas. The Mission has not been able to obtain any direct evidence that this was done with the specific intent of shielding the rocket launchers from counterstrikes by the Israeli armed forces.” What reason could there possibly be for launching rockets from urban centers, if not shielding those rockets from counterattack? And what is the moral distinction that is purportedly being established here?"

http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-goldstone-illusion

I consider this the most crucial indicator for the double standard applied: "...the Mission found no evidence... of intention to" 

One of his repeated lines of defense during the debate was to assert that the facts on the grounds were such that he had no alternative but to conclude that the IDF's INTENTION was to target civilians, qua civilians. Yet here were have two examples in which the intention to harm civilians is clearly manifest yet all of a sudden circumspection and scepticism are called in: let's not be too hasty in our judgment. 

I guess this is the tragic flaw in this fiasco, the classic double standard: let's impute to the Jews the darkest motives when they act in their interests; let's withhold judgment when we speak of Palestinians behaving badly. While there is no doubt about the intentions of Israeli Jews, there is every reason to give Hamas the benefit of a doubt.

Justice Goldstone can think like a judge instructing a jury when it comes to determining Palestinian guilt. Justice Goldstone can think only as a prosecutor when he indicts Israel.  

It is funny how he tries to use the paltry section he inserted into the report about Hamas role in this war as if it were an incontrovertible proof for his "even handedness".

I thought Dore Gold did a good job but not good enough. His response about the bombing of the mosque was somewhat lame. 

As for Judge Goldstone, I thought it was pathetic of him to try to ingratiate himself with the audience by telling them how terrified he had been of Hamas and entering Gaza and then his great delight in finding out that the people there were actually hospitable and polite. Not only pathetic but clearly indicative of some incomnensurability with the task he was assigned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On The New Republic, Moshe Halbertal kicks off his thoughtful article by pointing to what seem ingrained flaws in the assumptions of the report: </p>
<p>&#8220;In addressing this vexing issue, the Goldstone Report uses a rather strange formulation: “While reports reviewed by the Mission credibly indicate that members of the Palestinian armed groups were not always dressed in a way that distinguished them from the civilians, the Mission found no evidence that Palestinian combatants mingled with the civilian population with the intention of shielding themselves from the attack.” The reader of such a sentence might well wonder what its author means. Did Hamas militants not wear their uniforms because they were inconveniently at the laundry? What other reasons for wearing civilian clothes could they have had, if not for deliberately sheltering themselves among the civilians?</p>
<p>As for the new “front” in asymmetrical warfare, we read in another passage, which is typical of the report’s overall biased tone, that, “On the basis of the information it gathered, the Mission finds that there are indications that Palestinian armed groups launched rockets from urban areas. The Mission has not been able to obtain any direct evidence that this was done with the specific intent of shielding the rocket launchers from counterstrikes by the Israeli armed forces.” What reason could there possibly be for launching rockets from urban centers, if not shielding those rockets from counterattack? And what is the moral distinction that is purportedly being established here?&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-goldstone-illusion" rel="nofollow">http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-goldstone-illusion</a></p>
<p>I consider this the most crucial indicator for the double standard applied: &#8220;&#8230;the Mission found no evidence&#8230; of intention to&#8221; </p>
<p>One of his repeated lines of defense during the debate was to assert that the facts on the grounds were such that he had no alternative but to conclude that the IDF&#8217;s INTENTION was to target civilians, qua civilians. Yet here were have two examples in which the intention to harm civilians is clearly manifest yet all of a sudden circumspection and scepticism are called in: let&#8217;s not be too hasty in our judgment. </p>
<p>I guess this is the tragic flaw in this fiasco, the classic double standard: let&#8217;s impute to the Jews the darkest motives when they act in their interests; let&#8217;s withhold judgment when we speak of Palestinians behaving badly. While there is no doubt about the intentions of Israeli Jews, there is every reason to give Hamas the benefit of a doubt.</p>
<p>Justice Goldstone can think like a judge instructing a jury when it comes to determining Palestinian guilt. Justice Goldstone can think only as a prosecutor when he indicts Israel.  </p>
<p>It is funny how he tries to use the paltry section he inserted into the report about Hamas role in this war as if it were an incontrovertible proof for his &#8220;even handedness&#8221;.</p>
<p>I thought Dore Gold did a good job but not good enough. His response about the bombing of the mosque was somewhat lame. </p>
<p>As for Judge Goldstone, I thought it was pathetic of him to try to ingratiate himself with the audience by telling them how terrified he had been of Hamas and entering Gaza and then his great delight in finding out that the people there were actually hospitable and polite. Not only pathetic but clearly indicative of some incomnensurability with the task he was assigned.</p>
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		<title>By: rlandes</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7798</link>
		<dc:creator>rlandes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7798</guid>
		<description>I think that Goldstone's anwswers are illegitimate. first he complains that no one's responded substantively, then he switches to, "well you haven't responded to the targeting of civilians." the report is so shot through with legal and moral incompetence that it's hard to know where to start. throughout run two threads that disqualify it repeatedly: "we found no evidence of Hamas... [using human shields, booby trapping civilian areas, etc.]" and "we found no reason to question the witnesses credibility... [as they accuse Israeli soldiers of ludicrously concocted lethal narratives (like Abed Rabbo).
the report is so awful we actually put up a site to aggregate the criticisms according to topics (procedure, controversies, case studies, big picture).  please visit www.goldstonereport.com and comment.
Richard Landes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Goldstone&#8217;s anwswers are illegitimate. first he complains that no one&#8217;s responded substantively, then he switches to, &#8220;well you haven&#8217;t responded to the targeting of civilians.&#8221; the report is so shot through with legal and moral incompetence that it&#8217;s hard to know where to start. throughout run two threads that disqualify it repeatedly: &#8220;we found no evidence of Hamas&#8230; [using human shields, booby trapping civilian areas, etc.]&#8221; and &#8220;we found no reason to question the witnesses credibility&#8230; [as they accuse Israeli soldiers of ludicrously concocted lethal narratives (like Abed Rabbo).<br />
the report is so awful we actually put up a site to aggregate the criticisms according to topics (procedure, controversies, case studies, big picture).  please visit <a href="http://www.goldstonereport.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.goldstonereport.com</a> and comment.<br />
Richard Landes</p>
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		<title>By: Michael W.</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7787</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7787</guid>
		<description>I analyzed the Goldstone in a different way. I measured it by how it was handled by free and not free countries using Freedom House's 2009 World Freedom Index. I divided the UNHRC vote on the resolution endorsing the Goldstone report into 3 blocs, those that voted against or refused to vote on the resolution (8 countries), those that abstained or were not present (12 countries), and those that voted for the resolution (25 countries). Then I took the average rating using the Freedom Index of each bloc. You can see the results here :

http://ikibbitz.com/?p=112</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I analyzed the Goldstone in a different way. I measured it by how it was handled by free and not free countries using Freedom House&#8217;s 2009 World Freedom Index. I divided the UNHRC vote on the resolution endorsing the Goldstone report into 3 blocs, those that voted against or refused to vote on the resolution (8 countries), those that abstained or were not present (12 countries), and those that voted for the resolution (25 countries). Then I took the average rating using the Freedom Index of each bloc. You can see the results here :</p>
<p><a href="http://ikibbitz.com/?p=112" rel="nofollow">http://ikibbitz.com/?p=112</a></p>
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		<title>By: Yisrael Medad</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7786</link>
		<dc:creator>Yisrael Medad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7786</guid>
		<description>Goldstone is trying to "goldstone" us.  The report has been refuted well in almost all its claims, conclusions, narrative-structuring and "facts".  Start here: http://www.goldstonereport.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goldstone is trying to &#8220;goldstone&#8221; us.  The report has been refuted well in almost all its claims, conclusions, narrative-structuring and &#8220;facts&#8221;.  Start here: <a href="http://www.goldstonereport.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.goldstonereport.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Petra</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7782</link>
		<dc:creator>Petra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7782</guid>
		<description>Gregg Mashberg's politeness is certainly admirable. Quite a few people who have read the Goldstone report and his various statements about it have wondered if he read his own report... E.g. his claims about the "substance" of the report are -- I'm looking for a polite word here -- ehm, let's say: somewhat problematic in view of the fact that much of this "substance" is about the idea that Gaza is occupied. Moreover, in his interview with The Forward, he himself admitted that his report wasn't really more than a "roadmap" pointing to incidents that should arguably be investigated... and he also said he wouldn't be embarrassed if it turned out that most of the allegations he raises were baseless -- well, good for him; in the meantime, he seems to be enjoying all the attention, and the chance to speak out against the "demonization" of a movement like Hamas, which in its founding charter proudly relies on the "Protocols of the Elders" for their view of history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gregg Mashberg&#8217;s politeness is certainly admirable. Quite a few people who have read the Goldstone report and his various statements about it have wondered if he read his own report&#8230; E.g. his claims about the &#8220;substance&#8221; of the report are &#8212; I&#8217;m looking for a polite word here &#8212; ehm, let&#8217;s say: somewhat problematic in view of the fact that much of this &#8220;substance&#8221; is about the idea that Gaza is occupied. Moreover, in his interview with The Forward, he himself admitted that his report wasn&#8217;t really more than a &#8220;roadmap&#8221; pointing to incidents that should arguably be investigated&#8230; and he also said he wouldn&#8217;t be embarrassed if it turned out that most of the allegations he raises were baseless &#8212; well, good for him; in the meantime, he seems to be enjoying all the attention, and the chance to speak out against the &#8220;demonization&#8221; of a movement like Hamas, which in its founding charter proudly relies on the &#8220;Protocols of the Elders&#8221; for their view of history.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/11/a-correspondence-with-richard-goldstone/#comment-7781</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1446#comment-7781</guid>
		<description>Very interesting, however I do not think that Goldstone's words have credence.  He also puts everyone on a false equal par, suggesting that Israel incites hate against the Arabs like the Arabs do towards Israel.  This is simply not correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting, however I do not think that Goldstone&#8217;s words have credence.  He also puts everyone on a false equal par, suggesting that Israel incites hate against the Arabs like the Arabs do towards Israel.  This is simply not correct.</p>
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