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	<title>Comments on: Watching CiF</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/</link>
	<description>Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 10:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: exiledlondoner</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6836</link>
		<dc:creator>exiledlondoner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 08:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6836</guid>
		<description>Jonathan Hoffman,

I assume that you're the Jonathan Hoffman who authored the Parliamentry report on anti-semitism?

If so, have you actually read CIF Watch at length? Whatever your views about CIF, I'm amazed that you feel comfortable being associated with these people.

They have altered the wording of the EUMC working definition to remove the caveats about context.

They have conflated the EUMC definition with the MacPherson report into British policing. The result is that according to Louise (one of the founders), if she says it's anti-semitic, then it is, and anyone who says otherwise is a "Jew-baiter".

In the past couple of days they have published articles that are little more than extremist tracts, promoting settlement expansion and with no obvious links to anti-semitism.

http://cifwatch.com/2009/09/08/cif%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%98jewish-naqba-denial%e2%80%99/

The founders of CIF Watch are anonymous for a very good reason - they promote their extremist agenda using smears, defamation and libel. I'm rather surprised that anyone with a reputation to lose would openly support them - to be associated with such a site would seem to compromise any necessary impression of impartiality, or good judgement.

I would strongly suggest that you take another look and reassure yourself (and maybe others?) that you are happy to endorse the views and methods they promote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan Hoffman,</p>
<p>I assume that you&#8217;re the Jonathan Hoffman who authored the Parliamentry report on anti-semitism?</p>
<p>If so, have you actually read CIF Watch at length? Whatever your views about CIF, I&#8217;m amazed that you feel comfortable being associated with these people.</p>
<p>They have altered the wording of the EUMC working definition to remove the caveats about context.</p>
<p>They have conflated the EUMC definition with the MacPherson report into British policing. The result is that according to Louise (one of the founders), if she says it&#8217;s anti-semitic, then it is, and anyone who says otherwise is a &#8220;Jew-baiter&#8221;.</p>
<p>In the past couple of days they have published articles that are little more than extremist tracts, promoting settlement expansion and with no obvious links to anti-semitism.</p>
<p><a href="http://cifwatch.com/2009/09/08/cif%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%98jewish-naqba-denial%e2%80%99/" rel="nofollow">http://cifwatch.com/2009/09/08/cif%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%98jewish-naqba-denial%e2%80%99/</a></p>
<p>The founders of CIF Watch are anonymous for a very good reason - they promote their extremist agenda using smears, defamation and libel. I&#8217;m rather surprised that anyone with a reputation to lose would openly support them - to be associated with such a site would seem to compromise any necessary impression of impartiality, or good judgement.</p>
<p>I would strongly suggest that you take another look and reassure yourself (and maybe others?) that you are happy to endorse the views and methods they promote.</p>
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		<title>By: Yanpol</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6761</link>
		<dc:creator>Yanpol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6761</guid>
		<description>Why is Khaled Diab packed together with people like Tamimi? Khaled might support the one-state solution, but his views are secular and he's more critical of the Arab side than most of the anti-Israel camp and many "good" Jews (I'm quoting Eamonn on the epithet). You might not agree with him, but he tries to understand the Israeli position and has travelled to Israel himself. He's someone you can engage in debate with and I wouldn't call him an anti-Semite. Tamimi, on the other hand, you could call him ein Partei Mitglieder and you wouldn't be breaking Godwin's law, but stating something that is almost factual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is Khaled Diab packed together with people like Tamimi? Khaled might support the one-state solution, but his views are secular and he&#8217;s more critical of the Arab side than most of the anti-Israel camp and many &#8220;good&#8221; Jews (I&#8217;m quoting Eamonn on the epithet). You might not agree with him, but he tries to understand the Israeli position and has travelled to Israel himself. He&#8217;s someone you can engage in debate with and I wouldn&#8217;t call him an anti-Semite. Tamimi, on the other hand, you could call him ein Partei Mitglieder and you wouldn&#8217;t be breaking Godwin&#8217;s law, but stating something that is almost factual.</p>
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		<title>By: Eamonn McDonagh</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6697</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn McDonagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6697</guid>
		<description>I have just binned a comment from "Bravo for CiFWatch" which impugned Ben's motives. He/she/they won't be allowed on here again.

 The phrase “No good turn goes unpunished.” springs to mind</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just binned a comment from &#8220;Bravo for CiFWatch&#8221; which impugned Ben&#8217;s motives. He/she/they won&#8217;t be allowed on here again.</p>
<p> The phrase “No good turn goes unpunished.” springs to mind</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cohen</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6695</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6695</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;sorry...take this what down...CAN YOU SHOUT A BIT LOUDER PLEASE!!!!&lt;/b&gt;

You really should lie down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>sorry&#8230;take this what down&#8230;CAN YOU SHOUT A BIT LOUDER PLEASE!!!!</b></p>
<p>You really should lie down.</p>
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		<title>By: Bravo for CiFWatch</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6694</link>
		<dc:creator>Bravo for CiFWatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6694</guid>
		<description>Your bet is irrelevant to the point. This thread is now helping CiF and should be taken down.

If you leave it in place, you'll have proved my point that you ego is more important to you than helping Israel or fighting anti-Semites.

&lt;b&gt;Take this thread down!&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your bet is irrelevant to the point. This thread is now helping CiF and should be taken down.</p>
<p>If you leave it in place, you&#8217;ll have proved my point that you ego is more important to you than helping Israel or fighting anti-Semites.</p>
<p><b>Take this thread down!</b></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cohen</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6693</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6693</guid>
		<description>Bravo, Eamonn and I had a little bet as  to whether you'd accuse us of "supporting" CiF. I now owe Eamonn five bucks. 

As for you, why not have a nice lie-down? You'll feel ever so much better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, Eamonn and I had a little bet as  to whether you&#8217;d accuse us of &#8220;supporting&#8221; CiF. I now owe Eamonn five bucks. </p>
<p>As for you, why not have a nice lie-down? You&#8217;ll feel ever so much better.</p>
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		<title>By: Bravo for CiFWatch</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6692</link>
		<dc:creator>Bravo for CiFWatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6692</guid>
		<description>Eamonn

&lt;i&gt;"Those who live in developed and democratic nations have legal options if they feel they have been discriminated against at work for campaigning against racism"&lt;/i&gt;

I question whether you live in the real world. Discrimination suits are lengthy, costly, difficult to win, and absorb energy a responsible person would ordinarily use for their job, job, search, or family.

&lt;i&gt;"But being a grown up means deciding to accept certain (in this case very modest) risks in order to defend just causes that are important to you."&lt;/i&gt; 

You have just called childish those working hard to defend Israel from the anti-Semitic Guardian. Are you on the Guardian's side? You and Cohen appear to be. And by what right do you deign to look down on those who wish to protect their jobs and families? Is that the extent of your humanity?

Cohen, with this thread you have scored an own goal, all for the sake of your own ego. The thread now helps the Guardian. You should take the thread down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eamonn</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Those who live in developed and democratic nations have legal options if they feel they have been discriminated against at work for campaigning against racism&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I question whether you live in the real world. Discrimination suits are lengthy, costly, difficult to win, and absorb energy a responsible person would ordinarily use for their job, job, search, or family.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;But being a grown up means deciding to accept certain (in this case very modest) risks in order to defend just causes that are important to you.&#8221;</i> </p>
<p>You have just called childish those working hard to defend Israel from the anti-Semitic Guardian. Are you on the Guardian&#8217;s side? You and Cohen appear to be. And by what right do you deign to look down on those who wish to protect their jobs and families? Is that the extent of your humanity?</p>
<p>Cohen, with this thread you have scored an own goal, all for the sake of your own ego. The thread now helps the Guardian. You should take the thread down.</p>
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		<title>By: Bravo for CiFWatch</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6689</link>
		<dc:creator>Bravo for CiFWatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6689</guid>
		<description>Ben, of 21 posts on this thread, 18 discuss either the anonymity issue or the Etty-Belinda issue. Worse, your own posts descend to language such as "false moniker," "feeble excuse," "puerile".

You're not doing your side any good. In fact, you've made this thread an "own goal".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, of 21 posts on this thread, 18 discuss either the anonymity issue or the Etty-Belinda issue. Worse, your own posts descend to language such as &#8220;false moniker,&#8221; &#8220;feeble excuse,&#8221; &#8220;puerile&#8221;.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re not doing your side any good. In fact, you&#8217;ve made this thread an &#8220;own goal&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cohen</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6677</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 02:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6677</guid>
		<description>Eamonn called this a "laudable initiative" and I readily provided Hawkeye with a guest post here - at my own initiative.

Yet according to Bravo, we are attacking CifWatch!

I don't understand &lt;i&gt;your mindset&lt;/i&gt;, which equates any kind of criticism with an offensive act. "For us or against us." In other words, puerile nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eamonn called this a &#8220;laudable initiative&#8221; and I readily provided Hawkeye with a guest post here - at my own initiative.</p>
<p>Yet according to Bravo, we are attacking CifWatch!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand <i>your mindset</i>, which equates any kind of criticism with an offensive act. &#8220;For us or against us.&#8221; In other words, puerile nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Bravo for CiFWatch</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2009/08/watching-cif/#comment-6675</link>
		<dc:creator>Bravo for CiFWatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1384#comment-6675</guid>
		<description>Excuse me, I do not understand the mindset of Eamonn and Cohen.

1. You have used a thread about CifWatch to emit more criticism of CiFWatch than of CiF.
2. You have thus expended energy attacking Israel's friends rather than enemies (CiF).
3. The result remains sterile, as I assume CiFWatch likely thought seriously about the decision and your criticsm is unlikely to change that - especially if the agreement of a number of people were required to change it.
4. Comments on CiF are themselves anonymous, as they are on many political blogs. So too,frequently enough, are the articles themselves.
5. Virulent anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism do abound in some circles, as does political bias. Even in the freewheeling USA, acdemic leftist ideology has destroyed the career of more than one centre-right academic. Anonymity may at times be a necessity.

I also do not understand the Etty-Belinda issue. The same IP address can occur:
 
1. If two students post from the same library terminal.
2. If two family members post from the same computer.
3. If DHCP hands out the same IP sequentially to two posters.
4. If two family members share the same home router though two different computers.
5. A few months ago, Novatel placed on the market a small device, called MiFi, which connects to the telecomm using wireless mobile and creates a small local network to which several computers in the same office may connect. This would also result in the same IP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me, I do not understand the mindset of Eamonn and Cohen.</p>
<p>1. You have used a thread about CifWatch to emit more criticism of CiFWatch than of CiF.<br />
2. You have thus expended energy attacking Israel&#8217;s friends rather than enemies (CiF).<br />
3. The result remains sterile, as I assume CiFWatch likely thought seriously about the decision and your criticsm is unlikely to change that - especially if the agreement of a number of people were required to change it.<br />
4. Comments on CiF are themselves anonymous, as they are on many political blogs. So too,frequently enough, are the articles themselves.<br />
5. Virulent anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism do abound in some circles, as does political bias. Even in the freewheeling USA, acdemic leftist ideology has destroyed the career of more than one centre-right academic. Anonymity may at times be a necessity.</p>
<p>I also do not understand the Etty-Belinda issue. The same IP address can occur:</p>
<p>1. If two students post from the same library terminal.<br />
2. If two family members post from the same computer.<br />
3. If DHCP hands out the same IP sequentially to two posters.<br />
4. If two family members share the same home router though two different computers.<br />
5. A few months ago, Novatel placed on the market a small device, called MiFi, which connects to the telecomm using wireless mobile and creates a small local network to which several computers in the same office may connect. This would also result in the same IP.</p>
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