Comments on: Palestine: A Demilitarized State? http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/ Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:13:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC1.1 By: Roger Cohen And Wishful Thinking, Part 974 at Z-Word Blog http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-9838 Roger Cohen And Wishful Thinking, Part 974 at Z-Word Blog Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:32:11 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-9838 [...] for two reasons: firstly, because I’ve set out my views on Palestinian rights at length here before and secondly, because I don’t feel that writers should have to prove that they are on the [...] […] for two reasons: firstly, because I’ve set out my views on Palestinian rights at length here before and secondly, because I don’t feel that writers should have to prove that they are on the […]

]]> By: Berel Dov Lerner http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5480 Berel Dov Lerner Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:35:08 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5480 So: Netanyahu is willing to give the Palestinians full self-determination to do everything they want except pose a direct threat to Israel's security. If you think that granting the Palestinians the right to be able to threaten Israel is a necessary ingredient of the "two state solution" - so much the worse for the "two state solution"! Why should worries about some technical definition of statehood stand in the way of solving the Arab-Israeli conflict? Isn't it time for a little bit of creativity? As for the issue of a Palestinian state being able to protect itself from internal enemies - that has already been addressed by previous commentators. Notice, however, how academic this whole discussion is. Antisemitic Hamas controls Gaza. "Moderate" Fatah, which refused to make a deal with Olmert, even as his negotiating position slipped off to the far left extreme of Israeli Jewish electoral politics - manages to keeps its control over the West Bank thanks to the IDF's constant interference. No Arab voice recognizes that the "right of return" for the grandchildren of the refugees of 1948 is a conversation stopper, which at the very least turns the "two state solution" into a "one (Palestinian) nation state and one (post-Israel) binational state" solution. And we are arguing among ourselves over whether we are giving the Palestinians a sufficiently generous offer of statehood! So: Netanyahu is willing to give the Palestinians full self-determination to do everything they want except pose a direct threat to Israel’s security. If you think that granting the Palestinians the right to be able to threaten Israel is a necessary ingredient of the “two state solution” - so much the worse for the “two state solution”! Why should worries about some technical definition of statehood stand in the way of solving the Arab-Israeli conflict? Isn’t it time for a little bit of creativity?
As for the issue of a Palestinian state being able to protect itself from internal enemies - that has already been addressed by previous commentators. Notice, however, how academic this whole discussion is. Antisemitic Hamas controls Gaza. “Moderate” Fatah, which refused to make a deal with Olmert, even as his negotiating position slipped off to the far left extreme of Israeli Jewish electoral politics - manages to keeps its control over the West Bank thanks to the IDF’s constant interference. No Arab voice recognizes that the “right of return” for the grandchildren of the refugees of 1948 is a conversation stopper, which at the very least turns the “two state solution” into a “one (Palestinian) nation state and one (post-Israel) binational state” solution. And we are arguing among ourselves over whether we are giving the Palestinians a sufficiently generous offer of statehood!

]]> By: LB http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5459 LB Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:19:33 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5459 <i>"but it will need infantry, light armor, helicopters and if Gaza is ever wrested from Hamas, some kind of coast guard too."</i> Apart from helicopters, they still have them - supplied through General Dayton's training and equipping. I believe they even have some semblance of a coast guard (the "naval police" or something like that). “but it will need infantry, light armor, helicopters and if Gaza is ever wrested from Hamas, some kind of coast guard too.”

Apart from helicopters, they still have them - supplied through General Dayton’s training and equipping. I believe they even have some semblance of a coast guard (the “naval police” or something like that).

]]> By: Gilad Abiri http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5445 Gilad Abiri Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:36:56 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5445 As to helicopters and basic APC's - the PA already had some before the second intifada. These were destroyed by Israel immediatly after it was clear that PA security forces are deeply involved in the fighting. So, I would suggest, the Prime minister is referring to three main offensive weapons. 1. Missles or Rockets of any kind. 2. Jets . 3. heavy armor. As to helicopters and basic APC’s - the PA already had some before the second intifada. These were destroyed by Israel immediatly after it was clear that PA security forces are deeply involved in the fighting.

So, I would suggest, the Prime minister is referring to three main offensive weapons. 1. Missles or Rockets of any kind. 2. Jets . 3. heavy armor.

]]> By: Petra http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5419 Petra Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:55:53 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5419 Just thought this is relevant: "When asked by CBS how he expects Palestinians to rein in their extremist elements without a military, Netanyahu said: 'Well, there is a long-standing agreement on a strong security force, on a strong police force, which is sufficient to deal with terrorists.'" http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1093343.html Just thought this is relevant:

“When asked by CBS how he expects Palestinians to rein in their extremist elements without a military, Netanyahu said: ‘Well, there is a long-standing agreement on a strong security force, on a strong police force, which is sufficient to deal with terrorists.’”

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1093343.html

]]> By: Eamonn McDonagh http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5414 Eamonn McDonagh Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:53:19 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5414 Petra, tx. for the comment. I was aware of all this and stand by what I said in the post. Petra, tx. for the comment. I was aware of all this and stand by what I said in the post.

]]> By: Petra http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5412 Petra Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:09:58 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5412 Eamonn, I think you misunderstand Netanyahu. Palestinian security/police forces are being trained and equipped (and armed) already for more than a year by the US (with some European assistance); so that's not the point. De-militarized has a clear meaning: no army, i.e. no military with offensive capabilities, like e.g. Costa Rica... There is a whole lot of commentary out there claiming that a demilitarized state is no state, but that's BS, because otherwise all talk about a demilitarized state would anyway be an oxymoron. Last but not least, the outcry about this issue now is completely fake, because this was already part of the Camp David/Taba negotiations and the Geneva initiative, and I think also the One Voice initiative. There are actually now bloggers who supported this initiative and now cry foul -- because it's apparently one thing if Netanyahu demands a demilitarized Palestinian state, and a completely different one if Yossi Beilin demands it... Anyway, should be an amusing spectacle to see veteran peace activists standing up for the Palestinian "right" to have military forces and weapons. Eamonn, I think you misunderstand Netanyahu. Palestinian security/police forces are being trained and equipped (and armed) already for more than a year by the US (with some European assistance); so that’s not the point. De-militarized has a clear meaning: no army, i.e. no military with offensive capabilities, like e.g. Costa Rica…
There is a whole lot of commentary out there claiming that a demilitarized state is no state, but that’s BS, because otherwise all talk about a demilitarized state would anyway be an oxymoron.
Last but not least, the outcry about this issue now is completely fake, because this was already part of the Camp David/Taba negotiations and the Geneva initiative, and I think also the One Voice initiative. There are actually now bloggers who supported this initiative and now cry foul — because it’s apparently one thing if Netanyahu demands a demilitarized Palestinian state, and a completely different one if Yossi Beilin demands it…
Anyway, should be an amusing spectacle to see veteran peace activists standing up for the Palestinian “right” to have military forces and weapons.

]]> By: Palestine: A Demilitarized State? « El Nuevo Pantano http://blog.z-word.com/2009/06/palestine-a-demiltarized-state/#comment-5411 Palestine: A Demilitarized State? « El Nuevo Pantano Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:48:37 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=1319#comment-5411 [...] Palestine: A Demilitarized State? Published June 15, 2009 Israel , Military Affairs , Palestinians 0 Comments Tags: Bibi Netanyahu, Israel, Palestine, z word here [...] […] Palestine: A Demilitarized State? Published June 15, 2009 Israel , Military Affairs , Palestinians 0 Comments Tags: Bibi Netanyahu, Israel, Palestine, z word here […]

]]>