Best,

Assaf

You need to find the world within yourself before projecting your inner needs onto the real world.

There are many Jews trying to distance themselves from their Jewishness in the hopes of becoming more popular, better liked. And like all other emotionally based attitudes, it fails the test of real justice.

You say:

“Good people do good things.
Bad people do bad things.
Only religion makes good people do bad things.”

I reply:

Good people do more good things than bad things.
Bad people do more bad things than good things.
People use religion, and every other social institution, to execute their will.

Thanks for answering. This is not, however, about the two of us or about what our family member did during WWII, or what your two Jewish friends think.

The fact is that Norway has an anti-semitic history and that Norwegians today in no way critisize Israel “on the same level” as we critisize other countries. Israel has been singled out for special treatment for no good reason. If Norwegians were really concerned about human life we would look at Congo DR.

The average Norwegian has no knowledge of Israeli history, of the Balfour declaration, of the Peel commission, of 48, 67, 73 or Camp David 2000, or the jewish refugees. Yet he is all too keen to take sides, for the Palestinians and against Israel, and to swallow the simplistic arguments which are presented to us in the press.

Regarding religion, I’m sure you know that Israel was built mainly by non-religous jews. The religous zeal in the region is muslim, not jewish. It is true however that moslems have declared jihad on Israel since the origin of the state. But to the extent that it is a religous war that we see in the Middle East, it is a moslem religous war, not a jewish one.

The Israeli academic Manfred Gerstenfeld has written a book on anti-semitism in the nordic countries, feel free to download it form my site: http://www.israelwhat.com. Read it, and in return I will read any book on the case of Palestine that you care to mention.

Regards
Carl

Carl:
I did not live during the WW2 and will therefor not under any circumstances take any responsibility for ONE single episode from the resistance of bad things happening to Jews.
I totally agree that we didn’t do enough to help the Jews like the danish did. But some tried their best and I for one thing can say my grandfather helped several Jewish families into hiding. Unfortunately some of them where later discovered and sent to death camps but some survived.

The rule about Jews didn’t have access to Norway (Grunnloven §2 last sentence) was from 1814 to 1851 but many fought the law. One of our most famous poets Henrik Wergeland fought the law very hard and tried already in 1842 to get it removed. He wrote the poetry collection Jøden (The Jew) which he sent to every MP before the voting. To change the law they needed 2/3 but only got 51/94 in 1842. They voted several times and finally in 1851 it was removed. Please also remember that the law was something we got from the Danes and also included “Jesuitter” and munks. Norway was ruled by the swedes from 1814 to 1905 although we had our own Constitution.
Although Israel has democratic elections, Israel is a very corrupt state with lots of problems. I don’t think we should be use the argument that Israel is so great just because their neighbors are even worse.
Have your thought that maybe we care so much about Israel because they claim to be democratic and a modern
state with European values.
In Norway the socialists loved Israel in the beginning due to the Kibbutz but after Israel changed to right wing (compared to Norway) our left wing changed their views. Now the right wing (KRF, Høyre and FRP) in Norway are “friends of Israel”
Israel is also controlling the most important religious places for several religions and are therefor center stage for conflicts between them.
Do you Carl excuse the state of Israel for whatever they do? I think Norway is a great country but i don’t think all the things we do are correct. I hope that foreigners also sees that inside every country there are many different opinions and there we shouldn’t judge the people of a nation just because their leaders do stupid things.

Remember this:
Good people do good things.
Bad people do bad things.
Only religion makes good people do bad things.

Best regards
Øivind

One man claims “You offend Norwegians” with such claims. Is he concerned that real Jewish lives and livelihoods are at stake? Apparently not, what’s more important is his self-image. How dare suggest …

Thank you Carl (the 1st), for some honest perspective. Hopefully a voice like yours can rise and bring shame on people like Øivind and bring real dignity to the Norwegian people.

This is what we get here in Norway, every single day. No wonder Israel is about as popular as Guy Fawkes. And no wonder Manfred Gerstenfeld suspects Norwegians of being anti-semitic. We have an absence of checks and balances up here, when it comes to the farwaylands of the Middle East.
—————————–
A red line runs throughout the history of the state of Israel, from the UN division plan in November 1947 and up to today: The attempt to harass the Palestinians so thoroughly that they finally elect to leave what the zionists see as their promised land. Israel was born in blood and pain and endless suffering. The Israeli historian Ilan Pappe documents, in his book “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”, how leaders headed by David Ben-Gurion implemented a systematic plan to chase the Palestinians away from cities and villages where they had lived for centuries, thereby opening the land completely for the jews.

Pappes book builds to a large extent on Israeli documents, and is terrifying to read. The Jewish millitia Hagana, supported by the terrorgroups Irgun and Stern, executed systematic massacres of men, women and children in order to scare the Palestinians away. Towns like Deir Yassin and Tantura deserve to be mentioned as warcrimes on the same level as Oradour and Lidice. But there were many hundred towns which were completely eradicated, leveled with the ground and attempted hidden beneath the veil of time. Pappe also smashed the myth about how the refugees fled at the orders of neighboring arab states. This was intentional, it was implemented with great deliberations and with an infinite brutality and disregard for Palestinian lives.

The policy of making life unbearable for the Palestinians goes on. The Palestinians are regularly harassed and humiliated by Israeli soldiers. The settlements on the Westbank, the many road blocks and controls hinder and stranggle any attempt at establishing a healthy and sustainable Palestinian economy.

Still, I’ve been categorized by someone I’ve never met, spoke to etc etc as an antisemit, which I’d feel is wrong.
I actually feel offended, and I do know of others who feel the same way.

By stating Norway is anti-semitic you’re effectively offending the part that’s not.

I as Øyvind would say that there’s the separation between religion and state that’s the issue here.
I do NOT concur with the way Hamas behave, nor the way they’ve been countered.
Hate usually only leads one way, and that is to more hate, so instead of besmirching a populace for not siding with ones own opinion, write a proposal for peace, and instead of giving Hamas ground to fester upon (Such organizations thrive on fear, hate and such), give them hope.

I hope to see peace in the area, but as the differences are great and many actual antisemits are to be found in the region, there’s lot to do.
BUT, I thought that putting up walls, depriving a populace for food etc was the wrong way to go.
Learned in the ww2?

What about compassion and respect for fellow human beings?
Or live beings at all for that sake.

Anyhow, bringin up the act from 1814 is merely pointing out that religion have no place in politics.
Please read more WHY that law was held in place (not enacted as it was allready there from the Union).

Furthermore, “members of the resistance” didn’t target only jews.. Reports of these kinds should be available in libraries with decent books.

No, calling on the -ism card is just poor manners.

-Not so angry mob