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	<title>Comments on: Gaza, Israel and the Howling Chorus of Hypocrisy</title>
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	<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/</link>
	<description>Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/#comment-2709</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=739#comment-2709</guid>
		<description>Petra, what you refer to as my "complaint" was a statement
from Amnesty International.   Your statements about where the
bombs were dropped are in contradiction to the reports of HRW
and AI.  If you have a serious rebuttal of the information in
for example

http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/02/16/flooding-south-lebanon

I'd be interested in seeing it. 

Eammon, your  comment about cluster bombs and NATO is
inappropriate in two ways.  First, you can read about it in the
same places you can read about Israeli use of cluster bombs, or
the use of cluster bombs in general.  Second, there is the
matter of the scale of the usage:

http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62428/section/7
"Israel's use of cluster munitions was the most extensive use of the weapon anywhere in the world since the 1991 Gulf War and was concentrated in a relatively small geographical area. The number and density of cluster munitions used in Lebanon vastly exceeded their use in prior wars in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq where Human Rights Watch also conducted investigations."

The main point however is the matter of "hypocrisy". It's good
that you refer to Israel actions as "bad" and showed a 
"disgraceful and possibly criminal lack of concern
for the safety of the civilian population of Lebanon".
Again, however, what should the people of South Lebanon do?
There is no reason why Lebanese civilians should have to
live with the thread of their children having their limbs
blown off while playing in the backyard, especially since Israel is
refusing to hand over the strike data.

It seems to me that if your (Eamonn and Petra) standards 
(not mine) are applied as well to the people of South Lebanon,
then they, or some organization claiming to act for them, such as 
Hezbollah, has the right to bomb security stations throughout 
Israel (or the United States),  in order to show that this
situation cannot continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Petra, what you refer to as my &#8220;complaint&#8221; was a statement<br />
from Amnesty International.   Your statements about where the<br />
bombs were dropped are in contradiction to the reports of HRW<br />
and AI.  If you have a serious rebuttal of the information in<br />
for example</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/02/16/flooding-south-lebanon" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/02/16/flooding-south-lebanon</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested in seeing it. </p>
<p>Eammon, your  comment about cluster bombs and NATO is<br />
inappropriate in two ways.  First, you can read about it in the<br />
same places you can read about Israeli use of cluster bombs, or<br />
the use of cluster bombs in general.  Second, there is the<br />
matter of the scale of the usage:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62428/section/7" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62428/section/7</a><br />
&#8220;Israel&#8217;s use of cluster munitions was the most extensive use of the weapon anywhere in the world since the 1991 Gulf War and was concentrated in a relatively small geographical area. The number and density of cluster munitions used in Lebanon vastly exceeded their use in prior wars in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq where Human Rights Watch also conducted investigations.&#8221;</p>
<p>The main point however is the matter of &#8220;hypocrisy&#8221;. It&#8217;s good<br />
that you refer to Israel actions as &#8220;bad&#8221; and showed a<br />
&#8220;disgraceful and possibly criminal lack of concern<br />
for the safety of the civilian population of Lebanon&#8221;.<br />
Again, however, what should the people of South Lebanon do?<br />
There is no reason why Lebanese civilians should have to<br />
live with the thread of their children having their limbs<br />
blown off while playing in the backyard, especially since Israel is<br />
refusing to hand over the strike data.</p>
<p>It seems to me that if your (Eamonn and Petra) standards<br />
(not mine) are applied as well to the people of South Lebanon,<br />
then they, or some organization claiming to act for them, such as<br />
Hezbollah, has the right to bomb security stations throughout<br />
Israel (or the United States),  in order to show that this<br />
situation cannot continue.</p>
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		<title>By: Petra</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/#comment-2696</link>
		<dc:creator>Petra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=739#comment-2696</guid>
		<description>Seth, Israel has repeatedly explained its rationale for using cluster bombs in the 2006 Lebanon war, and has also investigated if they were used appropriately. There was some criticism of the IDF's handling of this matter; however, in principle, the use of cluster bombs was of course legal.
WRT clean-up efforts, it has been repeatedly pointed out that there shouldn't be any problem to identify the sites: Hezbollah knows where they had rocket launchers and weapons, and that's where the cluster bombs were dropped. So it might be good if you took your complaints to the group that caused the whole problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth, Israel has repeatedly explained its rationale for using cluster bombs in the 2006 Lebanon war, and has also investigated if they were used appropriately. There was some criticism of the IDF&#8217;s handling of this matter; however, in principle, the use of cluster bombs was of course legal.<br />
WRT clean-up efforts, it has been repeatedly pointed out that there shouldn&#8217;t be any problem to identify the sites: Hezbollah knows where they had rocket launchers and weapons, and that&#8217;s where the cluster bombs were dropped. So it might be good if you took your complaints to the group that caused the whole problem.</p>
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		<title>By: The Gaza Crisis &#171; El Nuevo Pantano</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/#comment-2695</link>
		<dc:creator>The Gaza Crisis &#171; El Nuevo Pantano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=739#comment-2695</guid>
		<description>[...]   Published December 28, 2008   Gaza , Israel , politics Tags: Gaza, Israel, The Z Word Blog      here and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;]   Published December 28, 2008   Gaza , Israel , politics Tags: Gaza, Israel, The Z Word Blog      here and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Eamonn McDonagh</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/#comment-2692</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn McDonagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=739#comment-2692</guid>
		<description>Israel's behaviour with regard to cluster munitions has indeed been bad. I wrote about it briefly here

http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/cluster-munitions-that-work/

and in my pre Z word days here

http://tinyurl.com/cluster1

and about the stupidity of banning such weapons here

http://tinyurl.com/cluster2

Cluster munitions were used  by Nato in the air campaigns that led to dayton and the removal of the serbs from Kosovo.

I am sure they can't have caused any trouble for the people living in the areas where they were used otherwise we'd be hearing about it all the time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel&#8217;s behaviour with regard to cluster munitions has indeed been bad. I wrote about it briefly here</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/cluster-munitions-that-work/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/cluster-munitions-that-work/</a></p>
<p>and in my pre Z word days here</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cluster1" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cluster1</a></p>
<p>and about the stupidity of banning such weapons here</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cluster2" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cluster2</a></p>
<p>Cluster munitions were used  by Nato in the air campaigns that led to dayton and the removal of the serbs from Kosovo.</p>
<p>I am sure they can&#8217;t have caused any trouble for the people living in the areas where they were used otherwise we&#8217;d be hearing about it all the time</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/#comment-2691</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=739#comment-2691</guid>
		<description>Petra writes:

" it’s not just how many or how few people get killed or wounded by those “home-made” rockets — it’s simply that living under the constant threat of rocket attacks, day in and day out for years, is not something that is acceptable."

What do you suggest that the people of South Lebanon do regarding
the unexploded cluster bombs, a constant threat in their lives?

One of many reports on this topic, which I notice are 
(almost?) entirely ignored by Engage/Z-word/Harry's Place:
(please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/israel-winograd-commission-disregards-israeli-war-crimes-20080131

The Israeli government’s persistent refusal to hand over the cluster bombs strike data and the exact coordinates of the areas into which its forces fired the cluster bombs has made this already painstaking mine-clearance task more deadly and time consuming. To date, 40 people (27 civilians and 13 de-mining personnel) have been killed and 234 have been injured (200 civilians and 34 de-mining personnel) by unexploded ordnance and the United Nation Mine Action Coordination Centre (UN-MACC) has identified more then 900 sites contaminated by unexploded but still lethal remnants of cluster bombs and other ordnance launched by Israeli forces into South Lebanon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Petra writes:</p>
<p>&#8221; it’s not just how many or how few people get killed or wounded by those “home-made” rockets — it’s simply that living under the constant threat of rocket attacks, day in and day out for years, is not something that is acceptable.&#8221;</p>
<p>What do you suggest that the people of South Lebanon do regarding<br />
the unexploded cluster bombs, a constant threat in their lives?</p>
<p>One of many reports on this topic, which I notice are<br />
(almost?) entirely ignored by Engage/Z-word/Harry&#8217;s Place:<br />
(please correct me if I&#8217;m wrong on this)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/israel-winograd-commission-disregards-israeli-war-crimes-20080131" rel="nofollow">http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/israel-winograd-commission-disregards-israeli-war-crimes-20080131</a></p>
<p>The Israeli government’s persistent refusal to hand over the cluster bombs strike data and the exact coordinates of the areas into which its forces fired the cluster bombs has made this already painstaking mine-clearance task more deadly and time consuming. To date, 40 people (27 civilians and 13 de-mining personnel) have been killed and 234 have been injured (200 civilians and 34 de-mining personnel) by unexploded ordnance and the United Nation Mine Action Coordination Centre (UN-MACC) has identified more then 900 sites contaminated by unexploded but still lethal remnants of cluster bombs and other ordnance launched by Israeli forces into South Lebanon.</p>
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		<title>By: Petra</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/12/gaza-israel-and-the-howling-chorus-of-hypocrisy/#comment-2683</link>
		<dc:creator>Petra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=739#comment-2683</guid>
		<description>Of course, the "chorus of hypocrisy" is already in full swing, or should that be: in resounding cacophony... 
What bears repeating from Eamonn's piece here is this statement:
"Indeed, this morning’s air attacks are a sign that Jerusalem views them [i.e. Hamas] with the respect and seriousness that parties to armed conflict always owe to their most challenging adversaries."
Quite so. The hypocrites like to downplay the "home-made" rockets that rain down on the communities in a 20-30 km radius of Gaza, but obviously, it's not just how many or how few people get killed or wounded by those "home-made" rockets -- it's simply that living under the constant threat of rocket attacks, day in and day out for years, is not something that is acceptable. Just the other day Hamas boasted that Israel was "too confused" to respond to the attacks from Gaza; maybe they hoped that this kind of utterly stupid rhetoric would prevent anybody from taking them seriously...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the &#8220;chorus of hypocrisy&#8221; is already in full swing, or should that be: in resounding cacophony&#8230;<br />
What bears repeating from Eamonn&#8217;s piece here is this statement:<br />
&#8220;Indeed, this morning’s air attacks are a sign that Jerusalem views them [i.e. Hamas] with the respect and seriousness that parties to armed conflict always owe to their most challenging adversaries.&#8221;<br />
Quite so. The hypocrites like to downplay the &#8220;home-made&#8221; rockets that rain down on the communities in a 20-30 km radius of Gaza, but obviously, it&#8217;s not just how many or how few people get killed or wounded by those &#8220;home-made&#8221; rockets &#8212; it&#8217;s simply that living under the constant threat of rocket attacks, day in and day out for years, is not something that is acceptable. Just the other day Hamas boasted that Israel was &#8220;too confused&#8221; to respond to the attacks from Gaza; maybe they hoped that this kind of utterly stupid rhetoric would prevent anybody from taking them seriously&#8230;</p>
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