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	<title>Comments on: More Reaction to &#8220;Rahmbo&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/</link>
	<description>Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Fabian from Israel</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2024</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabian from Israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2024</guid>
		<description>No, I didn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Dvar Dea</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2014</link>
		<dc:creator>Dvar Dea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 11:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2014</guid>
		<description>The word historians use is ‘sympathizer’. When it comes to the main neutral countries during WW2, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and Argentina, there is no question that they were neutral, since they did not participate in the war. But beneath this neutrality which side did they sympathize with? When it comes to Sweden, Switzerland, and Argentina there are those who claim that their sympathizes were with the axis powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word historians use is ‘sympathizer’. When it comes to the main neutral countries during WW2, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and Argentina, there is no question that they were neutral, since they did not participate in the war. But beneath this neutrality which side did they sympathize with? When it comes to Sweden, Switzerland, and Argentina there are those who claim that their sympathizes were with the axis powers.</p>
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		<title>By: shriber</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2007</link>
		<dc:creator>shriber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2007</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the information Fabian.

It is indeed a complex picture.

The wikipedia article uses information from Goni's book and says the following about the presence of Nazis in Argentina:



"Protection of Nazi war criminals
Further information: Ratlines (history) 
After World War II, Argentina became a leading haven for Nazi war criminals, with explicit protection from Perón. Uki Goñi showed in his 1998 book that Nazis and French and Belgian collaborationists, including Pierre Daye, met Perón in the President's official residence, the Casa Rosada (Pink House). In this meeting, a network was created with support by the Argentine Immigration Service and the Foreign Office. The Swiss Chief of Police Heinrich Rothmund [1] and the Croatian Roman Catholic priest Krunoslav Draganović also helped organize the ratline [32]. According to Goñi, 1948 was the most active year, during which Carlos Fuldner was in Switzerland with a special passport describing him as "special envoy of the President of Argentina." In 1946, Cardinal Antonio Caggiano went to the Vatican in the name of the Argentine government, and offered refuge for French collaborationists who had fled to Rome [32].

An investigation of 22,000 documents by the DAIA in 1997 discovered that the network was managed by Rodolfo Freude who had an office in the Casa Rosada and was close to Eva Perón's brother, Juan Duarte. According to Ronald Newton, Ludwig Freude, Rodolfo's father, was probably the local representative of the Office Three secret service headed by Joachim von Ribbentrop, with probably more influence than the German ambassador Edmund von Thermann. He had met Perón in the 1930s, and had contacts with Generals Juan Pistarini, Domingo Martínez and José Molina. Ludwig Freude's house became the meetingplace for Nazis and Argentine military officers supporting the Axis. In 1943, he traveled with Perón to Europe to attempt an arms deal with Germany.[33]

 
 Examples of Nazis and collaborators who relocated to Argentina include Emile Dewoitine, who arrived in May 1946 and worked on the Pulqui jet, Erich Priebke, who arrived in 1947, Josef Mengele in 1949, Adolf Eichmann in 1950, his adjutant Franz Stangl, Austrian representative of Spitzy in Spain, Reinhard Spitzy, Charles Lescat, editor of Je Suis Partout in Vichy France, SS functionary Ludwig Lienhardt, German industrialist Ludwig Freude, SS-Hauptsturmführer Klaus Barbie...."


There is mor here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Per%C3%B3n#Per.C3.B3n_and_Fascism



Whatever Peron's own sympathies though I am not sure I would comfortable with a government that allowed a pack of murderers to settle in the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the information Fabian.</p>
<p>It is indeed a complex picture.</p>
<p>The wikipedia article uses information from Goni&#8217;s book and says the following about the presence of Nazis in Argentina:</p>
<p>&#8220;Protection of Nazi war criminals<br />
Further information: Ratlines (history)<br />
After World War II, Argentina became a leading haven for Nazi war criminals, with explicit protection from Perón. Uki Goñi showed in his 1998 book that Nazis and French and Belgian collaborationists, including Pierre Daye, met Perón in the President&#8217;s official residence, the Casa Rosada (Pink House). In this meeting, a network was created with support by the Argentine Immigration Service and the Foreign Office. The Swiss Chief of Police Heinrich Rothmund [1] and the Croatian Roman Catholic priest Krunoslav Draganović also helped organize the ratline [32]. According to Goñi, 1948 was the most active year, during which Carlos Fuldner was in Switzerland with a special passport describing him as &#8220;special envoy of the President of Argentina.&#8221; In 1946, Cardinal Antonio Caggiano went to the Vatican in the name of the Argentine government, and offered refuge for French collaborationists who had fled to Rome [32].</p>
<p>An investigation of 22,000 documents by the DAIA in 1997 discovered that the network was managed by Rodolfo Freude who had an office in the Casa Rosada and was close to Eva Perón&#8217;s brother, Juan Duarte. According to Ronald Newton, Ludwig Freude, Rodolfo&#8217;s father, was probably the local representative of the Office Three secret service headed by Joachim von Ribbentrop, with probably more influence than the German ambassador Edmund von Thermann. He had met Perón in the 1930s, and had contacts with Generals Juan Pistarini, Domingo Martínez and José Molina. Ludwig Freude&#8217;s house became the meetingplace for Nazis and Argentine military officers supporting the Axis. In 1943, he traveled with Perón to Europe to attempt an arms deal with Germany.[33]</p>
<p> Examples of Nazis and collaborators who relocated to Argentina include Emile Dewoitine, who arrived in May 1946 and worked on the Pulqui jet, Erich Priebke, who arrived in 1947, Josef Mengele in 1949, Adolf Eichmann in 1950, his adjutant Franz Stangl, Austrian representative of Spitzy in Spain, Reinhard Spitzy, Charles Lescat, editor of Je Suis Partout in Vichy France, SS functionary Ludwig Lienhardt, German industrialist Ludwig Freude, SS-Hauptsturmführer Klaus Barbie&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is mor here:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Per%C3%B3n#Per.C3.B3n_and_Fascism" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Per%C3%B3n#Per.C3.B3n_and_Fascism</a></p>
<p>Whatever Peron&#8217;s own sympathies though I am not sure I would comfortable with a government that allowed a pack of murderers to settle in the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Eamonn McDonagh</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2005</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn McDonagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2005</guid>
		<description>"Many nazis came, but they were mostly sought out for technical knowledge, not sympathies."

Fabián, have you read Goñi's book?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Many nazis came, but they were mostly sought out for technical knowledge, not sympathies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fabián, have you read Goñi&#8217;s book?</p>
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		<title>By: Fabian from Israel</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2004</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabian from Israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2004</guid>
		<description>I am Argentinian. It is not so simple.
Argentina was not allied to the nazis. Peron thought that the country could profit better by remaining neutral (just like it did during WW1).
Many nazis came, but they were mostly sought out for technical knowledge, not sympathies.
Peron was very much sympathetic to Zionism and tried to win over for his party the support of the Argentinian Jews (just like McCain, and both failed).

Eammonn I didn't know that that was the thesis of the book by Lanata. Amazing. What a bastard!
My brother is a fan of his new newspaper.
Pagina 12 is unreadable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am Argentinian. It is not so simple.<br />
Argentina was not allied to the nazis. Peron thought that the country could profit better by remaining neutral (just like it did during WW1).<br />
Many nazis came, but they were mostly sought out for technical knowledge, not sympathies.<br />
Peron was very much sympathetic to Zionism and tried to win over for his party the support of the Argentinian Jews (just like McCain, and both failed).</p>
<p>Eammonn I didn&#8217;t know that that was the thesis of the book by Lanata. Amazing. What a bastard!<br />
My brother is a fan of his new newspaper.<br />
Pagina 12 is unreadable.</p>
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		<title>By: shriber</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2003</link>
		<dc:creator>shriber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2003</guid>
		<description>I intend to read Uki Goñi’s book, Eamonn. Thanks for the reference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I intend to read Uki Goñi’s book, Eamonn. Thanks for the reference.</p>
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		<title>By: shriber</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2002</link>
		<dc:creator>shriber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2002</guid>
		<description>"Argentina or rather Juan Domingo Perón, did not “give asylum” to Nazi war criminals. It actively encouraged and facilitated the arrival of many here and allowed them to live and work under assumed identities."


I don't get the difference, Eamonn.


If Peron's government "actively encouraged and facilitated the arrival of many here and allowed them to live and work under assumed identities" is this another case of defacto but not dejure governmental policy. 


Argentina is knows to have official policies which are never acknowledged by law. 


Witness the "dirty war" against dissidents in the 70's.  This too was not "official" policy at the time. 

I am afraid that the bombing at the Jewish center there has the smell of another one of those unofficial stamps of approval.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Argentina or rather Juan Domingo Perón, did not “give asylum” to Nazi war criminals. It actively encouraged and facilitated the arrival of many here and allowed them to live and work under assumed identities.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get the difference, Eamonn.</p>
<p>If Peron&#8217;s government &#8220;actively encouraged and facilitated the arrival of many here and allowed them to live and work under assumed identities&#8221; is this another case of defacto but not dejure governmental policy. </p>
<p>Argentina is knows to have official policies which are never acknowledged by law. </p>
<p>Witness the &#8220;dirty war&#8221; against dissidents in the 70&#8217;s.  This too was not &#8220;official&#8221; policy at the time. </p>
<p>I am afraid that the bombing at the Jewish center there has the smell of another one of those unofficial stamps of approval.</p>
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		<title>By: shriber</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2001</link>
		<dc:creator>shriber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2001</guid>
		<description>Yes, Eamonn, officially Argentian was neutral but the country was unofficially allied to the axis powers. 

This short comment on wikiAnswers taken from the University of San Deigo Website 
http://home.sandiego.edu/~tpace/Timeline.htm 

captures the reality the defacto German Argentian alliance as I understand it perfectly:


"When war broke out in 1939 Argentina declared neutrality 1939. Argentina economic interests lied with the Allies and they continued to sell vital food stuffs to the Britsh for the coming years. However is is commented that Argentina's heart and culture lied with the Axis. The United States put pressure on Agentina after Pearl Harbour to break ties with the Axis powers but didn't. In 1944 Agentina finally breaks ties with the axis powers after pressure from the USA. On March 27 1945 Argentina finally declared war on Germany after realizing that defeat was imminent."


The reason Argentian finally declared war on Germany after the Nazis were defeated was that the US had threatened Argentina with not allowing it to join the UN if it didn't do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Eamonn, officially Argentian was neutral but the country was unofficially allied to the axis powers. </p>
<p>This short comment on wikiAnswers taken from the University of San Deigo Website<br />
<a href="http://home.sandiego.edu/~tpace/Timeline.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.sandiego.edu/~tpace/Timeline.htm</a> </p>
<p>captures the reality the defacto German Argentian alliance as I understand it perfectly:</p>
<p>&#8220;When war broke out in 1939 Argentina declared neutrality 1939. Argentina economic interests lied with the Allies and they continued to sell vital food stuffs to the Britsh for the coming years. However is is commented that Argentina&#8217;s heart and culture lied with the Axis. The United States put pressure on Agentina after Pearl Harbour to break ties with the Axis powers but didn&#8217;t. In 1944 Agentina finally breaks ties with the axis powers after pressure from the USA. On March 27 1945 Argentina finally declared war on Germany after realizing that defeat was imminent.&#8221;</p>
<p>The reason Argentian finally declared war on Germany after the Nazis were defeated was that the US had threatened Argentina with not allowing it to join the UN if it didn&#8217;t do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Eamonn McDonagh</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-2000</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn McDonagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-2000</guid>
		<description>Argentina or rather Juan Domingo Perón, did not "give asylum" to Nazi war criminals. It actively encouraged and facilitated the arrival of many here and allowed them to live and work under assumed identities. Check out Uki Goñi's brilliant book

http://tinyurl.com/peronandthenazis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argentina or rather Juan Domingo Perón, did not &#8220;give asylum&#8221; to Nazi war criminals. It actively encouraged and facilitated the arrival of many here and allowed them to live and work under assumed identities. Check out Uki Goñi&#8217;s brilliant book</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/peronandthenazis" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/peronandthenazis</a></p>
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		<title>By: Karl Pfeifer</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/11/more-reaction-to-rahmbo/#comment-1998</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Pfeifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=497#comment-1998</guid>
		<description>"Argentina gave asylum to countless Nazi war criminals."

For instance to Adolf Eichmann.

"What is shocking and what the Argentinean reaction shows yet again is that antisemitism in most cases speaks the language of the “progressives” these days."

Unfortunately this is true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Argentina gave asylum to countless Nazi war criminals.&#8221;</p>
<p>For instance to Adolf Eichmann.</p>
<p>&#8220;What is shocking and what the Argentinean reaction shows yet again is that antisemitism in most cases speaks the language of the “progressives” these days.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unfortunately this is true.</p>
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