Comments on: Michael Lerner Responds to Karl Pfeifer http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/ Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:05:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC1.1 By: Inna http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1457 Inna Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:52:40 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1457 Rebecca-- Yes, Lerner is the editor of Tikkun. And one of the jobs of the editor is to take responsibility for messes. If you read Lerner's letter, he does not seem to be too eager to do that part of his job. He should therefore (IMO) take about a 75% reduction in pay. Regards, Inna Rebecca–

Yes, Lerner is the editor of Tikkun. And one of the jobs of the editor is to take responsibility for messes.

If you read Lerner’s letter, he does not seem to be too eager to do that part of his job. He should therefore (IMO) take about a 75% reduction in pay.

Regards,

Inna

]]> By: Rebecca http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1454 Rebecca Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:25:05 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1454 I am curious to know who the editor was, then, who posted the editor's note before Shamir's article on the Tikkun website. I assumed that it was Michael Lerner when I wrote about this incident on my blog (http://mystical-politics.blogspot.com/2008/09/tikkun-magazine-publishes-vicious-anti.html). No name was given - so who was it then? He *is* the editor of Tikkun. I am curious to know who the editor was, then, who posted the editor’s note before Shamir’s article on the Tikkun website. I assumed that it was Michael Lerner when I wrote about this incident on my blog (http://mystical-politics.blogspot.com/2008/09/tikkun-magazine-publishes-vicious-anti.html). No name was given - so who was it then? He *is* the editor of Tikkun.

]]> By: Eamonn McDonagh http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1453 Eamonn McDonagh Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:43:20 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1453 There are mistakes which consist of erring from a normally acceptable standard and there are mistakes which show what one is really about. There are mistakes which consist of erring from a normally acceptable standard and there are mistakes which show what one is really about.

]]> By: Karl Pfeifer http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1452 Karl Pfeifer Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:42:46 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1452 Ken I see no vilification. Z has published the exchange of letters without any comment. The fact that Michael Lerner did not reply to my relevant question speaks for itself. It is not a case of "speaking with people we deem to be sufficiently pure" but a case of moral and political hygiene not to publish a raving antisemite, a friend of Neo-Nazi. To quote is a mizva: Kol haomer davar beshem omro mewie ge'ula le-olam "Who says a thing in the name of the speaker brings deliverance to the world." Pirke Avot So Z behaved according to the moral code of Jewish tradition. Ken I see no vilification. Z has published the exchange of letters without any comment. The fact that Michael Lerner did not reply to my relevant question speaks for itself.
It is not a case of “speaking with people we deem to be sufficiently pure” but a case of moral and political hygiene not to publish a raving antisemite, a friend of Neo-Nazi.
To quote is a mizva: Kol haomer davar beshem omro mewie ge’ula le-olam “Who says a thing in the name of the speaker brings deliverance to the world.”
Pirke Avot
So Z behaved according to the moral code of Jewish tradition.

]]> By: ken http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1451 ken Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:24:36 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1451 What's the point in continuing to attack Lerner? He acknowledged the mistake and took down the article. Karl did a great service pushing this issue, and the right thing was ultimately done. Should Tikkun have refused to print the article in the first place? Of course. Might Michael's "explanation" been crafted differntly? Perhaps. So what? Z Word should be a vehicle for engaging people on the left on issues of antisemitism and zionism, including pointing out mistakes. But if we villify people with whom we disagree (especially when they engage the criticism and do the right thing) then we'll end up only speaking with people we deem to be sufficiently pure, in which case Z Word will become useless. What’s the point in continuing to attack Lerner? He acknowledged the mistake and took down the article. Karl did a great service pushing this issue, and the right thing was ultimately done. Should Tikkun have refused to print the article in the first place? Of course. Might Michael’s “explanation” been crafted differntly? Perhaps. So what?

Z Word should be a vehicle for engaging people on the left on issues of antisemitism and zionism, including pointing out mistakes. But if we villify people with whom we disagree (especially when they engage the criticism and do the right thing) then we’ll end up only speaking with people we deem to be sufficiently pure, in which case Z Word will become useless.

]]> By: shriber http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1448 shriber Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:29:57 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1448 "In my eyes he is a hypocrite, his sanctimonious agenda seems to be based on deceitfulness, duplicity, falsity and insincerity." Congratulation, Karl. I think you finally met the real Michael Lerner. Personally, I would like to ask him if he wrote the self aggrandizing description of Michael Lerner on Wikipedia? The article sounds like an exercise in creative writing as well as resume enhancement. “In my eyes he is a hypocrite, his sanctimonious agenda seems to be based on deceitfulness, duplicity, falsity and insincerity.”

Congratulation, Karl. I think you finally met the real Michael Lerner.

Personally, I would like to ask him if he wrote the self aggrandizing description of Michael Lerner on Wikipedia? The article sounds like an exercise in creative writing as well as resume enhancement.

]]> By: Karl Pfeifer http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1447 Karl Pfeifer Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:07:56 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1447 • I used the term Kvod Harav because I thought that Michael Lerner not only pretends to be a rabbi, but is one. Reading his letter I doubt that. Because usually rabbis know Derech Erez and behave accordingly. Michael Lerner does not. • Lerner wrote to me about "Shamir": “while some of his articles are in my view correct in their perspective or analysis”. So not secular Jews identify with the Swedish-Russian anti-Semite Adam Ermash (Israel Shamir) as Lerner postulates but he himself is in agreement with at least part of what this friend of Neo-Nazi says. This is projection, the attribution of one’s own ideas, feelings or attitudes to other people; the externalization of blame, guilt. • Lerner pretends to strive for Tikkun ha-olam. Mi pnei tikkun ha-olam means “For the benefit of society”. This tannaitic term deals not only with enforcing legal norms but also with non-punishable injurious behavior. Lerner understands as Tikkun ha-olam, that every one but he has to change his/her way. My questions were asked explicitly for the benefit of society. And I have told Tikkun that I am a journalist and could publish everything not marked “confidential or off record”. He writes, that he does “not wish to engage with” me because I have published something. This is just a pretext. As a matter of fact: Michael Lerner is just not able to answer my questions. • In my eyes he is a hypocrite, his sanctimonious agenda seems to be based on deceitfulness, duplicity, falsity and insincerity. • I used the term Kvod Harav because I thought that Michael Lerner not only pretends to be a rabbi, but is one. Reading his letter I doubt that. Because usually rabbis know Derech Erez and behave accordingly. Michael Lerner does not.
• Lerner wrote to me about “Shamir”: “while some of his articles are in my view correct in their perspective or analysis”. So not secular Jews identify with the Swedish-Russian anti-Semite Adam Ermash (Israel Shamir) as Lerner postulates but he himself is in agreement with at least part of what this friend of Neo-Nazi says. This is projection, the attribution of one’s own ideas, feelings or attitudes to other people; the externalization of blame, guilt.
• Lerner pretends to strive for Tikkun ha-olam. Mi pnei tikkun ha-olam means “For the benefit of society”. This tannaitic term deals not only with enforcing legal norms but also with non-punishable injurious behavior.
Lerner understands as Tikkun ha-olam, that every one but he has to change his/her way. My questions were asked explicitly for the benefit of society. And I have told Tikkun that I am a journalist and could publish everything not marked “confidential or off record”. He writes, that he does “not wish to engage with” me because I have published something. This is just a pretext. As a matter of fact:
Michael Lerner is just not able to answer my questions.
• In my eyes he is a hypocrite, his sanctimonious agenda seems to be based on deceitfulness, duplicity, falsity and insincerity.

]]> By: Noga http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1446 Noga Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:22:55 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1446 Karl Pfeifer is a very courteous person. And "kvod harav" is a figure of polite speech, like you would start any official letter to an IRA officer with "Dear Sir" though you hardly consider such a person in any way dear to you, except on paper... Karl Pfeifer is a very courteous person. And “kvod harav” is a figure of polite speech, like you would start any official letter to an IRA officer with “Dear Sir” though you hardly consider such a person in any way dear to you, except on paper…

]]> By: SnoopyTheGoon http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1445 SnoopyTheGoon Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:09:16 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1445 There is one point where Karl Pfeifer exaggerates. I mean "Kvod Harav". It is not exactly "kavod" I feel toward this character. There is one point where Karl Pfeifer exaggerates. I mean “Kvod Harav”. It is not exactly “kavod” I feel toward this character.

]]> By: Noga http://blog.z-word.com/2008/09/michael-lerner-responds-to-karl-pfeifer/#comment-1444 Noga Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:06:13 +0000 http://blog.z-word.com/?p=360#comment-1444 He does not want to engage with Karl Pfeifer, but he does anyway. He does not recall being involved, yet is able to quote almost verbatim a conversation that may not even have taken place. Just an example of the sort of muddled, incoherent, and sanctimonious thinking that characterizes Lerner's enterprise. This reminds me of this dialogue in the 1995 movie "Sabrina": "Patrick Tyson: That's not a wedding, it's a town. Mrs. Ingrid Tyson: Stop, it's going to be wonderful! Elegant but simple, lavish but tasteful... Patrick Tyson: Cheap but expensive." He does not want to engage with Karl Pfeifer, but he does anyway.

He does not recall being involved, yet is able to quote almost verbatim a conversation that may not even have taken place.

Just an example of the sort of muddled, incoherent, and sanctimonious thinking that characterizes Lerner’s enterprise.

This reminds me of this dialogue in the 1995 movie “Sabrina”:

“Patrick Tyson: That’s not a wedding, it’s a town.

Mrs. Ingrid Tyson: Stop, it’s going to be wonderful! Elegant but simple, lavish but tasteful…

Patrick Tyson: Cheap but expensive.”

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