But the question also is: what does it mean to say that “there is no counterpart [to the establishment of Israel] in the behaviour of Arabs and Muslims toward Jews”. After all, Arab Islam of course came to acquire most of the territories in which it is now dominant by brutal military conquest that displaced/absorbed many minorities.
And obviously, the Arab states had no qualms to dispossess and drive out the Jews in their midst, starting from 1947. It’s worthwhile to remember that the group Justice for Jews from Arab Countries claims that alone the lands to which Jews from Arab countries had deeds, and which they lost without any compensation, amounts to about 5 times the size of Israel…

Another important point you make here is the objection to Samuel’s admonition not to “rub salt into Arab wounds” — it sure is meant well, but as you rightly point out, it simply is patronizing as long as it is not an expectation addressed to both sides.

I very much agree with Samuel’s view that a peace agreement will require both sides to give up on demands for “justice” — in fact I wrote a piece about it some time ago for Cif (Peace of the Pragmatists), which also mentions the Irish “precedent” that is debated here so hotly.
But one could argue that if pragmatism prevailed, many of the issues Samuel raises wouldn’t be all that relevant.

Theauthor would be right if it were true, but his premise is false, assuming Jews are somehow interlopers in the Middle East when Jews have lived in this part of the world for millennia.Half of the Jews in Israel are native to the region. You fail to see the Middle East as the mosaic of peoples, ethnicities and sects it really is: the Arab-Muslim word is actually a mythical concept and it is a nonsense to assume that only Arab Muslims have political rights. This is the real injustice: the Arabs have 22 states - some not even states but statelets - by some arbitrary decision of the colonial powers. Why do only the Arab Muslims deserve justice and the Kurds, Assyrians and Berbers do not?Lebanon is the only other state, apart from Israel, where non-Muslims exercise power, but it is a matter of time before it collapses.

I disagree in what you say that there was an injustice. It was not the Jews who started the war after rejecting partition. But lets leave this aside.
Even if there was an injustice towards the Palestinians then, it would not do to create an injustice with the Jews now.
No Jew will consent to lose its right to self-determination, and especially not when it would be part of an arrangement in which Palestinians are to gain theirs!

“Interesting question. Basically, if you’re a citizen of the Irish Republic, you have the right to vote in the United Kingdom if you are resident there.”
Yes, but that would be similar to a possible future federation based on mutual consent between independent states. It is not similar to abolishing the State of Ireland, the territory of Northern Ireland (I am not sure which status it has) and England to solve the problem in NI. Do you understand?

if citizens of Ireland (the southern, independent country) have also, or are demanding the right to vote in North Ireland?

Interesting question. Basically, if you’re a citizen of the Irish Republic, you have the right to vote in the United Kingdom if you are resident there.

Because that would be similar to what the Palestinians are demanding with the “Right of Return”, namely, the “right” to outvote the Jews and transform Israel into another country completely.

But citizens of the Irish Republic don’t need a right of return because no-one expelled them in the first place and they are free to move between the UK and the Republic as they wish.

what would SF Stoop say if Israelis were to agree to establish an independent Palestinian state but demand also the right of Jews all over the world to vote in that country’s elections?

I don’t think it would work, but that’s not quite the same thing. Palestinians claim their right of return because there is a basic injustice that has not been addressed - the fact of their expulsion and continued exile. Once the injustice is addressed, or at least there are signs that it is going to be addressed, then the chances are that the claim will become less important. But the injustice is not being addressed. Palestinians are being told to accept that their expulsion was right and proper. What remains of their land is still being annexed. Why would you expect them to relinquish the right of return under such circumstances?

If the Irish from Ireland are content with voting in Ireland only and not also in NI, then the situation would be similar as those Palestinians who demand their own state, without also demanding the “right” to change another into their own state too.

I have resorted to no such characterization of your claims about Northern Ireland, even though you appear not to have demonstrated anything approaching an acquaintance with ‘facts on the ground’.

‘Various attempts to destroy the NI state by force having failed, NI Catholics have now decided..’

You make it seem as though the majority of NI Catholics had,on various occasions, supported attempts to destroy the NI state by force. In fact, it was only after the IRA ceasefire in 1994 that SF became the foremost nationalist party. There was never widespread support for such a thing.

‘..most Catholics did not actively work against the Northern Ireland state, even though they disliked its political leaders, and there were times like the late 1930s or the 1950s when increasing numbers would have accepted integration into the state had they been given any encouragement’

- Marianne Elliott, The Catholics of Ulster.

Anyway, my basic point here is that there is little similarity between the relationship of NI Catholics to the Northern State and that of Palestinians to Israel, in terms of the analogy that you draw here (I have not considered the general appropriateness of such an analogy).

And while the point in the concluding paragraph of your original comment is true in so far as it can happen anywhere given the right conditions, the conditions simply aren’t there in I/P. Furthermore, I don’t think they will be there any time soon.