<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Israel at Sixty: The Right to Exist</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/</link>
	<description>Commentary about Zionism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism and the conflict in the Middle East</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC1.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: The Politics of Fear at Z-Word Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-1364</link>
		<dc:creator>The Politics of Fear at Z-Word Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-1364</guid>
		<description>[...] in May, I reported on a front page piece in the LA Times which portrayed the one-state idea as a creative, radical and democratic initiative by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] in May, I reported on a front page piece in the LA Times which portrayed the one-state idea as a creative, radical and democratic initiative by [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lynne T</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 22:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-340</guid>
		<description>Dirk:

Currently, it's one man, one vote, within Israel's boundaries, for all of its citizens, regardless of confessional. And while Israel's "Arab" citizens may have every reason to feel like they are treated as second class citizens, they also know they live better lives than any of their Arab brethren living under the PA, Lebanon, Egypt or Syria. Where Israel and the territories merged into a single state, the result would be introducing the same thuggery that exists in the West Bank and Gaza to Israel, where the only votes that count are those of the loyal backers of Fatah and Hamas, whichever emerges as the top dog, and the rest of the population, Jewish, Christian or Muslim, live under the same conditions the average Iraqi did under Saddam... ...afraid to utter an opinion less they end up in a mass grave somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk:</p>
<p>Currently, it&#8217;s one man, one vote, within Israel&#8217;s boundaries, for all of its citizens, regardless of confessional. And while Israel&#8217;s &#8220;Arab&#8221; citizens may have every reason to feel like they are treated as second class citizens, they also know they live better lives than any of their Arab brethren living under the PA, Lebanon, Egypt or Syria. Where Israel and the territories merged into a single state, the result would be introducing the same thuggery that exists in the West Bank and Gaza to Israel, where the only votes that count are those of the loyal backers of Fatah and Hamas, whichever emerges as the top dog, and the rest of the population, Jewish, Christian or Muslim, live under the same conditions the average Iraqi did under Saddam&#8230; &#8230;afraid to utter an opinion less they end up in a mass grave somewhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-312</guid>
		<description>If one looks at the teachings of Islam, it advocates that anyone who is not a Moslem is of inferior status and in extreme cases it is being preached in mosques that they should be killed. This includes Christians as well as Jews. How could a one-state solution work especially if Moslems are in the majority? They are not big on human rights, rights of women and a look at history or even what Jews experienced in Israel under Moslem rule is enough to convince me that this would be suicide for the Jews. Of course this is the desired goal of many. Too bad Israelis refuse to go down without a fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one looks at the teachings of Islam, it advocates that anyone who is not a Moslem is of inferior status and in extreme cases it is being preached in mosques that they should be killed. This includes Christians as well as Jews. How could a one-state solution work especially if Moslems are in the majority? They are not big on human rights, rights of women and a look at history or even what Jews experienced in Israel under Moslem rule is enough to convince me that this would be suicide for the Jews. Of course this is the desired goal of many. Too bad Israelis refuse to go down without a fight.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryna Weiss</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-310</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryna Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 03:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-310</guid>
		<description>Ah, Ben, how refreshing- a voice of reason, of logic, of calm, of truth.  Would that we had more Arab voices concurring.  Of course, Israel must and will remain a Jewish State AND a Democratic one.
Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Ben, how refreshing- a voice of reason, of logic, of calm, of truth.  Would that we had more Arab voices concurring.  Of course, Israel must and will remain a Jewish State AND a Democratic one.<br />
Thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 01:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-309</guid>
		<description>Demographic trends will change when Arab women get the education and work opportunities that western and israeli women have.  arab christians might also be at risk with a one state solution, since the rise of islamic extremism in the region threatens jews and christians alike.

i'm naive enough to think that education, economic development and a two state solution will lead to long term peace and prosperity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Demographic trends will change when Arab women get the education and work opportunities that western and israeli women have.  arab christians might also be at risk with a one state solution, since the rise of islamic extremism in the region threatens jews and christians alike.</p>
<p>i&#8217;m naive enough to think that education, economic development and a two state solution will lead to long term peace and prosperity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-299</guid>
		<description>Dirk, you appear to be arguing, on the basis of demographic projections, that Israel and Palestine will inevitably merge into one state. 

Do you really believe that this can occur without the imposition of mass violence against the Israeli Jewish population? Can you give an example of one nation in history which has achieved a state and then voluntarily surrendered sovereignty? And would you care to comment on the thoroughly depressing record of the Arab states when it comes to the treatment of minorities? Is Lebanon a model? Or Iraq? Because you might want to recall that Saddam Hussein only achieved "national unity" in Iraq by committing genocide against the Shi'a and Kurdish populations.

As to your question, are the Jews a nation or a religion?, again, I would ask you why you put it in either/or terms. Are the Armenians, for example, a nation or a religion? For that matter, what does it mean to be a Saudi, or a Jordanian? 

I would argue that Jewish identity is based upon several foundations, of which the State of Israel is one. In a globalized world with unprecedented records of emigration, and which is therefore full of diasporas, identity is a complex thing. We should get away from the formula that to be a nation, the vast majority of a particular group have to be concentrated in a particular territory, speaking a particular language. 

Finally, Arabs and Jews DO live together. The question is what political arrangements are necessary to maintain that fact. My position is that a secure State of Israel is an integral component of these arrangements. And given that Israel is the closest thing to a secular, democratic state in the region - or would you dispute that an Arab in Nazareth has far more rights than an Arab in Damascus? - it is much better equipped than any of its neighbors to guarantee minority rights. There are 100 million Muslims living in India; if they can live there without having to flee to Pakistan, why should the Arabs of Israel be regarded any differently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk, you appear to be arguing, on the basis of demographic projections, that Israel and Palestine will inevitably merge into one state. </p>
<p>Do you really believe that this can occur without the imposition of mass violence against the Israeli Jewish population? Can you give an example of one nation in history which has achieved a state and then voluntarily surrendered sovereignty? And would you care to comment on the thoroughly depressing record of the Arab states when it comes to the treatment of minorities? Is Lebanon a model? Or Iraq? Because you might want to recall that Saddam Hussein only achieved &#8220;national unity&#8221; in Iraq by committing genocide against the Shi&#8217;a and Kurdish populations.</p>
<p>As to your question, are the Jews a nation or a religion?, again, I would ask you why you put it in either/or terms. Are the Armenians, for example, a nation or a religion? For that matter, what does it mean to be a Saudi, or a Jordanian? </p>
<p>I would argue that Jewish identity is based upon several foundations, of which the State of Israel is one. In a globalized world with unprecedented records of emigration, and which is therefore full of diasporas, identity is a complex thing. We should get away from the formula that to be a nation, the vast majority of a particular group have to be concentrated in a particular territory, speaking a particular language. </p>
<p>Finally, Arabs and Jews DO live together. The question is what political arrangements are necessary to maintain that fact. My position is that a secure State of Israel is an integral component of these arrangements. And given that Israel is the closest thing to a secular, democratic state in the region - or would you dispute that an Arab in Nazareth has far more rights than an Arab in Damascus? - it is much better equipped than any of its neighbors to guarantee minority rights. There are 100 million Muslims living in India; if they can live there without having to flee to Pakistan, why should the Arabs of Israel be regarded any differently?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dirk</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 09:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-298</guid>
		<description>Ariel said..."Dirk a one-state solution while nice, is not feasable. Both populations are vehemontly nationalistic and distrustful of each other. Also the idea that no individual group would dominate is infantile and incomaptable with the demographic trends you espouse"...

So are you saying Arabs and Jews can not live together ?
But do they not already,after all Arabs make up more than 1/5 of the population of Israel.
Between the West Bank ,Gaza and Israeli there are for the first time as many Arabs/Palestinians as Jews I believe 5 million respectively.
The Arab birth rate is by far,much higher than the Jewish birthrate.What happens to the idea of a "Jewish state" when 1/2 the pop is Arab(a very real possibility)?
Seems to me the two people will have no choice in the matter.At some point they will have to learn to live with one another.So again the best solution remains   a single secular state.
Indeed the continued fragmentation of the West Bank by Jewish settlers,makes a viable Palestinian state less and less possible.
Israeli actions &#38; inactions are not only strengthening the argument for a one state solution, they are creating the conditions so that a one state solution will be the only practical option left.
Demographics and therefore time are on the side of the Palestinians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ariel said&#8230;&#8221;Dirk a one-state solution while nice, is not feasable. Both populations are vehemontly nationalistic and distrustful of each other. Also the idea that no individual group would dominate is infantile and incomaptable with the demographic trends you espouse&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>So are you saying Arabs and Jews can not live together ?<br />
But do they not already,after all Arabs make up more than 1/5 of the population of Israel.<br />
Between the West Bank ,Gaza and Israeli there are for the first time as many Arabs/Palestinians as Jews I believe 5 million respectively.<br />
The Arab birth rate is by far,much higher than the Jewish birthrate.What happens to the idea of a &#8220;Jewish state&#8221; when 1/2 the pop is Arab(a very real possibility)?<br />
Seems to me the two people will have no choice in the matter.At some point they will have to learn to live with one another.So again the best solution remains   a single secular state.<br />
Indeed the continued fragmentation of the West Bank by Jewish settlers,makes a viable Palestinian state less and less possible.<br />
Israeli actions &amp; inactions are not only strengthening the argument for a one state solution, they are creating the conditions so that a one state solution will be the only practical option left.<br />
Demographics and therefore time are on the side of the Palestinians.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ariel</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>Ariel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 18:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-296</guid>
		<description>Dirk a one-state solution while nice, is not feasable. Both populations are vehemontly nationalistic and distrustful of each other. Also the idea that no individual group would dominate is infantile and incomaptable with the demographic trends you espouse.

Also most recent data shows the demographic trend in Israel 'proper' as you call it leave the status qou more or less unchanged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk a one-state solution while nice, is not feasable. Both populations are vehemontly nationalistic and distrustful of each other. Also the idea that no individual group would dominate is infantile and incomaptable with the demographic trends you espouse.</p>
<p>Also most recent data shows the demographic trend in Israel &#8216;proper&#8217; as you call it leave the status qou more or less unchanged.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dirk</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 22:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-293</guid>
		<description>So is Judaism  a nationality or a religion.Your fellow contributer to this blog Terry Glavin seems to thinks so,indeed he approvingly quotes Steven Plaut who said....
"Judaism has never defined Jews on racial grounds. Anyone from any race is welcome as a convert to Judaism as long as he or she is sincere".....
 So again which is it..?

As for a one state solution,I am inclined to agree it would resolve many difficulties.
After all what could be more democratic than one man one vote.Jews,Muslims and Palestinians would have to learn to live with one another.No one group could dominate.Perhaps that's why you are opposed to a one state solution.The Zionist dream of a jewish state would be over.After all how can a state be a jewish state if half the pop was Palestinian.NO indeed,it would not be a jewish state but it would be a democracy.
Long term demographic trends point to the inevitable end of an Israel predominantly made up of Jews.
Countries can not be decreed,particularly when said country is erected on the land that was already occupied.The indigenous population "might" take issue with that idea.
But in the end we can argue till we are both blue in the face.
Demographics trends will eventually see a Palestinian majority inside Israel proper( as "its borders" are presently defined.
This is the main concern of Zionist,this is why Israel has different rules for Arab Israelis as opposed to Jewish Israeli's.
What could be more ironic,some would even call it "poetic justice".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is Judaism  a nationality or a religion.Your fellow contributer to this blog Terry Glavin seems to thinks so,indeed he approvingly quotes Steven Plaut who said&#8230;.<br />
&#8220;Judaism has never defined Jews on racial grounds. Anyone from any race is welcome as a convert to Judaism as long as he or she is sincere&#8221;&#8230;..<br />
 So again which is it..?</p>
<p>As for a one state solution,I am inclined to agree it would resolve many difficulties.<br />
After all what could be more democratic than one man one vote.Jews,Muslims and Palestinians would have to learn to live with one another.No one group could dominate.Perhaps that&#8217;s why you are opposed to a one state solution.The Zionist dream of a jewish state would be over.After all how can a state be a jewish state if half the pop was Palestinian.NO indeed,it would not be a jewish state but it would be a democracy.<br />
Long term demographic trends point to the inevitable end of an Israel predominantly made up of Jews.<br />
Countries can not be decreed,particularly when said country is erected on the land that was already occupied.The indigenous population &#8220;might&#8221; take issue with that idea.<br />
But in the end we can argue till we are both blue in the face.<br />
Demographics trends will eventually see a Palestinian majority inside Israel proper( as &#8220;its borders&#8221; are presently defined.<br />
This is the main concern of Zionist,this is why Israel has different rules for Arab Israelis as opposed to Jewish Israeli&#8217;s.<br />
What could be more ironic,some would even call it &#8220;poetic justice&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shimshon</title>
		<link>http://blog.z-word.com/2008/05/israel-at-sixty-the-right-to-exist/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>Shimshon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 13:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.z-word.com/?p=99#comment-290</guid>
		<description>Israel was created to be a Jewish state and it should stay so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel was created to be a Jewish state and it should stay so!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
